Isaiah 9 :6 Is Jesus the Father ?

[Guest]

In Isaiah 9:6 the word tells us that the child that is to be born and the Son that is to be given will be called the mighty God and everlasting Father. I would like to ask all the forum members their thoughts concerning these verses in Isaiah chapter 6. Is Jesus the Father and if not then what is this verse actually saying? I would appreciate all of your input. Thank you.

[Guest]

Is Jesus the Father and if not then what is this verse actually saying? I would appreciate all of your input. Thank you.


Roger, Since Father God was not born by Mary this term "Father" must refer to something else like "Father of humanity" or of creation or of our salvation.
Possibly since Jesus was "the Word of God" up to his human birth , in a sense he was a part of Father God so maybe it could be meant in that way.

[Guest]

Steve makes a good point. "Fathership" is a fairly ordinary (one-to-many) relationship. So, the question is, "Father of who (or what)?" It seems to me that there can be many fathers (maybe only one "everlasting father"), with all the varieties of relationships. But, there is only God. I don't think that it is obvious to assume here that the prophet is naming the future messiah "God the Father."

It could be speaking here of the messiah as the father of new creation, in a similar sense that Geo. Washington is called the "father of America.," or the father of the new Kingdom, or several other possible interpretations.

[_Paidion]

The Septuagint translation from Hebrew to Greek several hundred years before Christ is probably closer to the original than the Hebrew Masoretic text from which the Old Testament is translated in modern times. The Masoretic text was copied between the seventh and tenth centuries (see Wikepedia). The Septuagint prepared in the 3rd century B.C. is the text used by the Hellenistic Jews --- the text which is quoted in the New Testament.

What remains of the OT texts of the Dead Sea Scrolls more closely resembles the Septuagint in meaning than it does the Masoretic text from which your Old Testament was translated.

Even the Septuagint varies; there are a number of varying Septuagint manuscripts. Some of them render the words "everlasting father" (from the Masoretic text) as "father of the age to come".

Premillenialists have no problem with thinking of Jesus as "the father of the age to come" since that age is the "Kingdom age" during which Jesus the King rules, and all the world will be subject to him (until Satan once again deceives the gentiles (non-Christians) near the end, and leads a rebellion.

[Guest]

In Isaiah 9:6 the word tells us that the child that is to be born and the Son that is to be given will be called the mighty God and everlasting Father. I would like to ask all the forum members their thoughts concerning these verses in Isaiah chapter 6. Is Jesus the Father and if not then what is this verse actually saying? I would appreciate all of your input. Thank you.

Youngs Literal Translation puts it 'father of eternity'.

[_Paidion]

That is because the word "aōn" and its Hebrew counterpart are frequently mistranslated as "eternity" instead of "age". Likewise the adjectival form "aōnios" is mistranslated "eternal" instead of "age-long" or "going from age to age".

Two translations which never mistranslate these words in this way are:

1. Rotherham (1804)

2. Concordant Version [edited by A.E. Knoch (1874-1965)]

[Guest]

Hi. For what it might add to this thread, Isaiah 9:6 (9:5 in the Hebrew) maintains identical correspondence between the Masoretic Text and the Great Isaiah Scroll found among the DSS.

Although it may require an extra dose of concentration to search it out, the Great Isaiah text is should be visible at the following link: http://www.ao.net/~fmoeller/qum-8.htm[url]

(If it's any help, verse 5 [English v6] begins after the large space which is 2 lines above the '25' mark.)

The phrase 'avi ad' (from the DSS) isn't separated by a space within the MT (which simply uses one word 'aviad', but this doesn't effect the essential meaning of the phrase/word. The word 'avi' contains the 1st person possessive ending within both texts, so maybe it could be rendered 'my father forever' (or 'my father until')?

Happy in Jesus...
-sd

[_Paidion]

Thank you for this, achsteven. I knew that "The Dead Sea Srolls Bible" translates it as "everlasting Father", but since I know no Hebrew, I could not determine whether or not it was translated correctly.