Psalm 44 - faithful yet scattered?

[Guest]

Some time ago I was reading Romans chapter 8 and noticted Paul's reference to Psalm 44 in verse 36. I went back and read the Psalm and I saw the parallel with what Paul was saying. What I didn't see was this.

When did the Israelites ever remain faithful to God and yet experience being "scattered among the nations" and "rejected and disgraced"?

I understand that this is poetic language but does anyone know what historical event this could be refering to? ...or could he simply be speaking with emotion and using dramatized language to describe a painful isolated event?

Any thoughts or input?

thanks,
Steve

[Guest]

Hi Anothersteve,

I will probably not give a good answer to your question, but maybe if I turn on that little orange light again, someone better will notice and give you the answer you deserve.

I did read Psalm 44 - about four times yesterday. It seems to me to be a personal protest, even though it seems to be written in the plural.

It doesn't say that David is the author, but if he is, there were plenty of times when he was 'scattered.' Even if the author was someone else, I don't get the impression that this psalm is written in response to a national event.

I could be really wrong though.

[Guest]

Michelle, thank you for your input. After I submitted the question the thought occured to me as well that he could had been referring to a smaller group. To me, obviously, this is not any easy question.

One thing for sure, the writer knew what he was referring to...and since Paul referred suffering faithful Christians back to the Psalm as an example, maybe he knew as well.

By the way Michelle, I've browsed through the forum and noticed several of your comments before. I find that you have some excelent input and wit. More importantly, you always express a pleasant demeanor no matter how tough or "hot" the issue is.

Steve

[Guest]

I agree, steve, and being outrageously outnnumbered by us guys i am glad to have her input.

thx michelle!

TK

[Guest]

Thanks

[Guest]

Some time ago I was reading Romans chapter 8 and noticted Paul's reference to Psalm 44 in verse 36. I went back and read the Psalm and I saw the parallel with what Paul was saying. What I didn't see was this.

When did the Israelites ever remain faithful to God and yet experience being "scattered among the nations" and "rejected and disgraced"?

I understand that this is poetic language but does anyone know what historical event this could be refering to? ...or could he simply be speaking with emotion and using dramatized language to describe a painful isolated event?

Any thoughts or input?

thanks,
Steve

So...what is the answer? Was Israel ever scattered among the nations while being faithful?

[Guest]

So...what is the answer? Was Israel ever scattered among the nations while being faithful?

I'll take a crack at it.

My answer depends on how we define the word Israel.

If Israel is defined as the geographical and political nation from the OT, I'm not aware of more than a few brief times when all of those living within national Israel were faithful to God. The instances recorded for us in history when OT national Israel was scattered (conquered by other nations and deported) were because of the general unfaithfulness and sin of the people on that nation. Psalm 44 states that those for whom the psalm is referring have remained faithful, so it may be incorrect to read national Israel into the subject of the psalm.

If Israel is defined as those who are faithful to God (the remnant), there are many instances of faithful Jews being persecuted, reviled and scattered. Abel being killed by Cain, David on the run from Saul, Daniel and his 3 friends in Babylon, the prophet Ezekiel, and probably others whose stories remained unrecorded.
In fact, many of those who have been faithful to God before and after Jesus came (including Jesus) have been mistreated as described in this Psalm.

Hope this helps,
Dave

[Guest]

Thanks, Dave. That's a good answer!

'Sorry it took so long for me to notice.