Do atrocities committed by past popes disqualify the RCC?

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mkprr
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Do atrocities committed by past popes disqualify the RCC?

Post by mkprr » Sun Apr 10, 2011 3:44 am

Do the atrocities committed by past popes mean that the RCC couldn’t be the Kingdom of God?
I have been reading posts here and it seems people can’t help but bring up the evil acts of the Church to support their arguments against the RCC. I have to admit, I have never given the RCC much consideration mainly due to this line of thought. A long time ago I had been shown some of the horrible things that various popes had done in the past and that was all I needed to know, I no longer considered the RCC as anything more than a man-made institution. But as I have been reading through the Old Testament more closely and with perhaps a more open mind I have noticed that God sometimes seems to honor and give authority to men who do awful things. I recently read the story of Samson with my daughter and was really glad that most of it went over her head. :)
I wonder how biblically strong an appeal to the atrocities the RCC has committed over the years is. While various popes and leaders have done things that God must have hated, the RCC is also doing AMAZING Christ like things around the world and always has been. There probably is no way to do justice in describing how much good the RCC has done for individuals and communities. A good deed doesn’t cover up a bad deed but since God seemed to honor the authority of Samson until he completely broke all of his covenants, maybe we can’t point to the bad done by the RCC as proof of anything, or at least perhaps it isn’t as solid of proof as I had once thought it was.

Thoughts? I hope to hear from both Catholics and “protestants”.

steve7150
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Re: Do atrocities committed by past popes disqualify the RCC?

Post by steve7150 » Tue Apr 12, 2011 9:16 pm

I wonder how biblically strong an appeal to the atrocities the RCC has committed over the years is. While various popes and leaders have done things that God must have hated, the RCC is also doing AMAZING Christ like things around the world and always has been. There probably is no way to do justice in describing how much good the RCC has done for individuals and communities





Many non-Catholic orgs have done great things plus spread the gospel which i think is not a big priority with Catholic charities. The RCC during the middle ages could not be mistaken for the kingdom of God by anyone who understood Jesus. Recently they have become a kinder & gentler organization though still with other problems therefore from my perspective i can't rationalize the RCC as the kingdom of God.

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mkprr
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Re: Do atrocities committed by past popes disqualify the RCC?

Post by mkprr » Tue Apr 12, 2011 10:39 pm

Yes I agree, they did indescribably horrible things, but my question is, if their early bishops did have the authority they claim to have been given through Peter, would that authority have been lost because of the period of unmistakable wickedness they went through for quite some time? In the OT there were high priests who did wicked things but up until the time of Christ didn't God still except the offerings they made in behalf of the people? Granted this was the Old Testament and a lot changed with Jesus Christ but it seems like maybe the argument of wickedness that I once trusted isn't quite as strong as I once thought it was. I think there are other reasons to doubt the Catholic church is the Kingdom of God but how biblically strong is the argument that they have been wicked in the past and therefore can't be Gods Kingdom?

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steve
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Re: Do atrocities committed by past popes disqualify the RCC?

Post by steve » Tue Apr 12, 2011 11:02 pm

If the Catholic claims of apostolic succession were legitimate, then the atrocities done by some of these leaders might not disqualify the organization as a whole, any more than the atrocities of the Jewish priesthood nullified the legitimacy of the temple. However, that is a very big "if." I do not believe that the Catholic Church has any valid basis for its belief in apostolic succession.

The RCC is not the kingdom of God, regardless of the goodness or the evilness of its leaders for the simple reason that the true kingdom of God, the true Church, has Christ as its head, whereas the Roman Church has made it very clear that its organization has the See of Peter as its head. No human organization is the kingdom of God. The kingdom does not come with observation. None can say, "There is is."

Furthermore, the RCC cannot be the true Church, because Paul said the Church is "the pillar and ground of the truth"—that is, as a pillar or a foundation supports and upholds a structure, so the true Church upholds the truth. It is clear that the RCC, through its long history of repeatedly modified traditions and its adoption of pagan customs, does not qualify on this ground.

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mkprr
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Re: Do atrocities committed by past popes disqualify the RCC?

Post by mkprr » Fri Apr 15, 2011 1:13 am

Thanks for taking the time to answer. I hope there are still a few Catholics who visit here who could shed some light from their POV as well.

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