Roman Catholic and The Bible.

[RND]

May God bless you on this Lord's day.

Is it Saturday?

Isa 58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, [from] doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking [thine own] words:

It's thought like these Homer that lead me to believe that in some way the Catholics are actually right to some degree. While denouncing her claimed authority Protestants generally accept what she has degreed.

The Protestant world has been, from its infancy, in the sixteenth century, in thorough accord with the Catholic Church, in keeping "holy," not Saturday, but Sunday. The discussion of the grounds that led to this unanimity of sentiment and practice of over 300 years, must help toward placing Protestantism on a solid basis in this particular, should the arguments in favor of its position overcome those furnished by the Israelites and Adventists, the Bible, the sole recognized teacher of both litigants, being the umpire and witness. If however, on the other hand, the latter furnish arguments, incontrovertible by the great mass of Protestants, both cases of litigants, appealing to their common teacher, the Bible, the great body of Protestants, so far from clamoring, as they do with vigorous pertinacity for the strict keeping of Sunday, have no other resource [recourse] left than the admission that they have been teaching and practicing what is Scripturally false for over three centuries, by adopting the teaching and practice of what they have always pretended to believe an apostate church, contrary to every warrant and teaching of sacred Scripture. To add to the intensity of this Scriptural and unpardonable blunder, it involves one of the most positive and emphatic commands of God to His servant, man: "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy." - James Cardinal Gibbons, Archbishop of Baltimore Maryland (1877-1921)

[Jill]

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[steve]

RND,

You and popeman might wish to start your own forum (or at least your own debate club) entirely for people who refuse to listen to answers that people give to their questions.

Apparently you are something of a "one-trick pony." You have one point to make, and you must keep making it, even when you have been told repeatedly that it is irrelevant to your readers. In this case, your bizarre assumption that somebody here accepts the Catholic identification of Sunday as the sabbath lies behind even your most recent post. You have repeatedly harped on this pointless point, and apparently have failed to read every response given to you. Let me spell it out, and we will need to hear no more of the subject:

AMONG THE NON-CATHOLICS HERE, THERE IS NO ONE WHO HAS ARGUED (AND PROBABLY NO ONE WHO BELIEVES) THAT SUNDAY IS THE SABBATH.

Now, can you give it a rest—even if it isn't Saturday?

[RND]

RND,

You and popeman might wish to start your own forum (or at least your own debate club) entirely for people who refuse to listen to answers that people give to their questions.

Apparently you are something of a "one-trick pony." You have one point to make, and you must keep making it, even when you have been told repeatedly that it is irrelevant to your readers. In this case, your bizarre assumption that somebody here accepts the Catholic identification of Sunday as the sabbath lies behind even your most recent post. You have repeatedly harped on this pointless point, and apparently have failed to read every response given to you. Let me spell it out, and we will need to hear no more of the subject:

AMONG THE NON-CATHOLICS HERE, THERE IS NO ONE WHO HAS ARGUED (AND PROBABLY NO ONE WHO BELIEVES) THAT SUNDAY IS THE SABBATH.

Now, can you give it a rest—even if it isn't Saturday?

Sorry Steve. I was just confused that Homer may have been equating Sunday with the Lord's Day. My bad.

[Allyn]

As far as what the Bible teaches if today is today it is the Lord's day.

Heb. 3:7-15 -- So, as the Holy Spirit says: "Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as you did in the rebellion, during the time of testing in the desert, where your fathers tested and tried me and for 40 years saw what I did. This is why I was angry with that generation, and I said, "their hearts are always gone astray, and they have not known my ways." So I declared on oath in my anger, "They shall never enter my rest."
See to it, brothers, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called Today, so that none of you may be hardened by sins deceitfulness.

[RND]

Allyn, I commented on the above post of yours here seeing that that thread seemed more appropriate:

Sabbath Keeping (from "Roman Catholic and The Bible")

[Homer]

Steve,

You wrote:

Apparently you are something of a "one-trick pony."

Something unusual (for me at least) is going on here. I was thinking the exact same thing, including the underlined phrase, came on the forum again and found my thoughts already posted! Second time this happened in the same day.This may be the answer to my slow typing - I can think the thoughts and someone else will post them.

God bless everyone on this Lord's day, and those for whom it is now Monday; I think it is the Lord's too.

Homer

[tom]

Darin,

I understand that you never said the RCC could be wrong on certain teachings. What I suggested was a hypothetical that if you could, then we would be on some common ground. That's the problem -- you don't recognize the fallibility of the Pope or the RCC in doctrinal matters, and hold them and their writings/teachings on par with Scripture (or even above it to the extent we're correct that it sometimes conflicts with it).

I think you're confusing impeccable and infallible. The Popes are not impeccable. They can and have been wrong. Believe it or not a Pope can even sin! I'm told that Pope John Paul II went to confession once a week. He must have had something to confess. They are human just like you and me.

Now we need to talk about doctrine and Doctrine. In the RCC when we talk about doctrine these are the truths of Christianity that can't be changed. They are like the dogmas; Jesus is God, that there is a Trinity, that Jesus died for all mankind not just a few. These doctrines are not just teachings they are Truths. These doctrines are not just the Pope's pet beliefs but rather that of the Church's Magisterium. These doctrines are not on par with Scripture they are the Truths the Scriptures have revealed to the Church.

Steve has said; "Tom, you need to have the security of knowing that someone can make these decisions for you". I think it's much deeper then that. When the RCC teaches doctrine, in the sense I've described above, my knees bow down because I hear the voice of the Good Shepherd. Jesus Gave Us a Church! Not just a book for everyone to pick an choose. Can you imagine if every U.S. citizen were to read and interpret the U.S. Constitution for themselves?

Tom

[RND]

The Popes are not impeccable.

Neither are they infallible Tom - they make mistakes just like the rest of us! Generally I have found the argument over impeccability/peccability to involve Jesus and His nature, not Popes.

As you know infallibility refers to and deals with the infallibility regarding Catholic doctrine through the Sacred Magisterium. If the Sacred Magisterium, which bases "all of its infallible (sic) teachings on Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture" states that the moon is made of green cheese and Jesus ate of it then it's doctrine.

Fortunately, I'm not under any such superstition or delusion regarding the Sacred Magisterium and the teachings of the Catholic church.

[steve]

Hi Tom,

We missed you Saturday night, in Salinas! See you next time?

You wrote:

Can you imagine if every U.S. citizen were to read and interpret the U.S. Constitution for themselves?

This would not be a problem, if every citizen had the Constitution's author living in his or her head. As I have said before, you and popeman do not understand what we are saying because we are taking for granted the biblical teaching about the role of the Holy Spirit in the believers.