I can (and do) say the RCC is wrong on some things and not wrong on others -- you can't say that the RCC is wrong on anything, can you? If you could, then we could all agree that all of our churches are in the same situation, striving to figure out what is wrong and right according to Scripture. The problem we have is the claims of exclusivity to make and teach doctrine that the RCC makes, and the obligation of all believers to submit to it to obtain the graces of the Father, etc.tom wrote: Darin,
You're making statements again that have holes in them. You say, "I didn't suggest the Catholic Church is wrong on all doctrines..." but in your statement we are wrong on certain doctrines. We are right on some but wrong on others, correct?
Here's where you make no sense, "... as long as we are striving to be true to scripture...". So if we are all trying to be true to Scripture then how can you say anyone is wrong? I gave an example of the Sabbath observance, just as an example. I didn't bring it up to get off subject but as you can see others don't see eye to eye on that either and using the Scriptures alone it has no definitive answer. If I were to mention whether Jesus is God we would have the same disagreement! If you use the Bible only you really get messy!
As I have said before, God did not leave us to be in endless debate. He gave us the Church, " That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."
Tom
It gets messy sometimes when we as sinners try to use our own wisdom no matter what earthly authority we ascribe to or even if we don't acknowledge any earthly authority. I agree God did not intend for us to be in endless debate. Indeed, your example of the Sabbath is such a doctrine that scripture indicates that reasonable men could disagree on. The problem is not having people believe differently about some things, but in the disagreeability of some sinners in the way they disagree with us other sinners. That is a problem of failing to live by the Spirit, and not a problem with our not submitting to the teachings of the RCC.
In fact, using your example, scripture is actually pretty clear to a reasonable man on this subject (and where it's not taught in scripture or not clear from scripture, we should be able to disagree agreeably with some liberty)... Paul acknowledged that some would disagree and taught us (without need for church authority) how to deal with the subject. We are to let each man follow his own convictions in the matter, but he goes further in Galatians to make it clear that a spiritually mature man would let these things go, and he was frustrated that some had not done so.
Paul further comments that we would condemn ourselves before God Himself if we don't follow such personal convictions. What does a Roman Catholic do in such a situation where he has submitted to the church on such a subject out of a submission to the church that supercedes his own convictions?
andRomans 14 wrote:5 One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God...12 So then each one of us will give an account of himself to God...22 The faith which you have, have as your own conviction before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves.
Galatians 4 wrote:9 But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elemental things, to which you desire to be enslaved all over again? 10 You observe days and months and seasons and years. 11 I fear for you, that perhaps I have labored over you in vain.