Wrestling with what to teach
Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 5:05 am
I've listened to Steve's lessons and am reading his book on the subject of hell.
Steve I really appreciate how you logically present all sides of the argument.
Like some of you I've been on the fence about which view is ultimately correct, but because of that, I have by default found myself pitted against staunch traditionalists arguing for conditional immortality, which theoretically sounds reasonable to me. I can't find a passage that says the soul of man is inherently immortal - that only comes through faith in Jesus.
However in arguing that point (albeit without firm conviction) it dawned on me that suggesting the torment may eventually end for the "goat", I'm introducing a glimmer of hope for him that the Bible does not provide.
All the relevant passages make it very clear that the unbeliever will be separated from God. No God and therefore no hope. No love, no joy, no peace, no light, no pleasure or relief from torment.
It's not a pretty picture and there's no way to dress that up.
For all intents and purposes this is an eternal state to the one cast from God's presence.
Any discussion of that suffering somehow ending gives a hope that the Bible does not offer. The lost will not have a sense of hope (which is a gift from God) that it will ever end.
To humans, the concepts of hope and eternity are very closely entwined. As a Christian, I have hope that an unbeliever does not possess. Hope in this life to me means that I know that any suffering I experience here will eventually end. That's a gift.
When the Bible speaks of eternity or everlasting, it can be taken literally in a dimension that humans can comprehend. Everlasting punishment means no hope or end in sight, and that's what these passages are conveying.
Beyond that, any discussion about the global nature of eternity is speculation. The concepts of hell and eternity get into dimensions of space and time beyond my comprehension. Discussion about them can quickly go beyond the scope of the text. It's an intentional mystery I believe.
I completely trust that God is perfectly just and will ultimately set things in the universe exactly according to His perfect will.
I don't have to understand or make sense of it beyond that. I really can't wrap my mind around infinity and I don't have to.
In short, even though I have some theoretical agreement with the notion of conditional immortality, I can teach the traditionalist view with a clear conscience, rather than muddy the water. In a practical sense, that's the message the Bible conveys. Why offer hope to someone who, when they get there, can't enjoy it?
Steve I really appreciate how you logically present all sides of the argument.
Like some of you I've been on the fence about which view is ultimately correct, but because of that, I have by default found myself pitted against staunch traditionalists arguing for conditional immortality, which theoretically sounds reasonable to me. I can't find a passage that says the soul of man is inherently immortal - that only comes through faith in Jesus.
However in arguing that point (albeit without firm conviction) it dawned on me that suggesting the torment may eventually end for the "goat", I'm introducing a glimmer of hope for him that the Bible does not provide.
All the relevant passages make it very clear that the unbeliever will be separated from God. No God and therefore no hope. No love, no joy, no peace, no light, no pleasure or relief from torment.
It's not a pretty picture and there's no way to dress that up.
For all intents and purposes this is an eternal state to the one cast from God's presence.
Any discussion of that suffering somehow ending gives a hope that the Bible does not offer. The lost will not have a sense of hope (which is a gift from God) that it will ever end.
To humans, the concepts of hope and eternity are very closely entwined. As a Christian, I have hope that an unbeliever does not possess. Hope in this life to me means that I know that any suffering I experience here will eventually end. That's a gift.
When the Bible speaks of eternity or everlasting, it can be taken literally in a dimension that humans can comprehend. Everlasting punishment means no hope or end in sight, and that's what these passages are conveying.
Beyond that, any discussion about the global nature of eternity is speculation. The concepts of hell and eternity get into dimensions of space and time beyond my comprehension. Discussion about them can quickly go beyond the scope of the text. It's an intentional mystery I believe.
I completely trust that God is perfectly just and will ultimately set things in the universe exactly according to His perfect will.
I don't have to understand or make sense of it beyond that. I really can't wrap my mind around infinity and I don't have to.
In short, even though I have some theoretical agreement with the notion of conditional immortality, I can teach the traditionalist view with a clear conscience, rather than muddy the water. In a practical sense, that's the message the Bible conveys. Why offer hope to someone who, when they get there, can't enjoy it?