How to Discuss Hell with Others?

Singalphile
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How to Discuss Hell with Others?

Post by Singalphile » Sun Apr 22, 2012 3:00 pm

I recently decided that the popular view is incorrect.

My question to those of you who also don't hold the popular view (or are just unsure):

How have you dealt with this topic with Christians or non-Christians? I am not in any teaching or classroom environment, so I am more interested in other scenarios.

How do you respond when a Christian friend or acquaintance says something about the unsaved burning or suffering in hell forever? What's your response when a non-Christian challenges with something derogatory about God for "torturing" people forever?

Have you had any success in at least causing a person to temper his or her views on the matter? What works and what doesn't?

I heard about the various views from Steve about 5 months ago and I was interested and I looked into it myself and I formed my own conclusion. I appreciate that Steve talked about the different views without being overbearing or arrogant about it. So, I think that that is the correct and most useful attitude.

But maybe you think it's best to ignore the topic if at all possible, and just steer the conversation elsewhere or bring the focus back to more solid ground?

I'd like to learn from your more specific experiences, if any.

For my part:

I went over the various related verses with my Christian mom. She considered them respectfully, without much comment, and I think she was convinced that the popular view does not have as much scriptural support as she assumed. It helped that I had all of the verses written out, but I wouldn't usually have that at hand.

I made an aside comment about my doubts about the popular view to a friend of mine in a casual, fast moving discussion with a group of Christian friends, and his reaction was something like, "Oh, pfft, come on," and nothing more was said of it.

I have not discussed it with a non-Christian since changing my view.

Thanks.
... that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. John 5:23

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brody196
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Re: How to Discuss Hell with Others?

Post by brody196 » Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:30 pm

I recently decided that the popular view is incorrect.

My question to those of you who also don't hold the popular view (or are just unsure):

How have you dealt with this topic with Christians or non-Christians?
Hi there,

Yes, I have had conversations with both Christians and non-Christians on this subject.



I am not in any teaching or classroom environment, so I am more interested in other scenarios.

How do you respond when a Christian friend or acquaintance says something about the unsaved burning or suffering in hell forever?

I usually engage them by saying something along these lines: "Well, that is what many Christians have believed through the ages, but there is another view that seems to have a valid biblical case.." At this point you will probably get a funny look or two, especially if you are dealing with Calvinist or anybody else who has studied some form of systematic theology. The important thing is to not be so dogmatic, rather discuss the view with a sense of respect for those who disagree.




What's your response when a non-Christian challenges with something derogatory about God for "torturing" people forever?
I usually give them a brief overview of the conditional immortality doctrine and move onto sharing the gospel with them. I would ask "Why do you think it is unfair for God to judge people?" Or "What standard do you use to determine right or wrong?" Unsaved people who like to berate the idea of God punishing sin, usually do so because they know that their lifestyle is sinful, so they hope that such a Holy God does not exist.
Have you had any success in at least causing a person to temper his or her views on the matter? What works and what doesn't?
Yes! My best friend and I discussed the subject of hell for quite a while and he eventually came to the conditional immortality position, though he still studies the subject and isn't very pushy on it. I downloaded Steve's lectures for him and uploaded them to his Ipod, that way he could get a thorough teaching on it.
I heard about the various views from Steve about 5 months ago and I was interested and I looked into it myself and I formed my own conclusion. I appreciate that Steve talked about the different views without being overbearing or arrogant about it. So, I think that that is the correct and most useful attitude.
That's the key in my opinion. I hope I can emulate that attitude and have a heart that is always teachable.

But maybe you think it's best to ignore the topic if at all possible, and just steer the conversation elsewhere or bring the focus back to more solid ground?

I'd like to learn from your more specific experiences, if any.
Sometimes it is probably best to do just that. Many Christians cannot deal with it when someone disagrees with them. I have dealt with that sorta thing on numerous occasion. I find that if someone starts getting emotional, its best to change the subject.
For my part:

I went over the various related verses with my Christian mom. She considered them respectfully, without much comment, and I think she was convinced that the popular view does not have as much scriptural support as she assumed. It helped that I had all of the verses written out, but I wouldn't usually have that at hand.

I made an aside comment about my doubts about the popular view to a friend of mine in a casual, fast moving discussion with a group of Christian friends, and his reaction was something like, "Oh, pfft, come on," and nothing more was said of it.

I have not discussed it with a non-Christian since changing my view.

Thanks.
I once was discussing the idea of women elders with a husband and wife, and when I mentioned that I wasn't sure the scriptures supported such, the wife jumped outta her seat, snatched her ministerial license off the wall and slammed them down on the table in front of me! She was screaming at me to "burn them!", which she repeated several times. I didn't know what to do, so I just apologized...

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Paidion
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Re: How to Discuss Hell with Others?

Post by Paidion » Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:12 pm

I have shared with several Christians the teaching of the ultimate reconciliation of all to God. I have gotten three different types of responses:

1. A Negative response: "That's not fair!" Or "That's not scriptural!"
2. A Positive response: "That's precisely the way I see it." Or "It's what the Bible declares."
3. A Wishful response: "Oh, if only that were true!"
Paidion

Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.

Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.

Singalphile
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Re: How to Discuss Hell with Others?

Post by Singalphile » Sun Apr 22, 2012 11:54 pm

Thank you both for the helpful feedback. Now I'm actually kind of leaning more towards keeping my mouth shut about it, at least for a while longer.

I look forward to reading more of your posts here and elsewhere.
... that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. John 5:23

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jriccitelli
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Re: How to Discuss Hell with Others?

Post by jriccitelli » Fri Apr 27, 2012 9:11 am

I wanted to respond to this because last Sunday my Sunday morning Bible study teacher promised us that this coming Sunday morning the topic would be H-e-l-l, and since this is a Southern Baptist denomination and I do not hold to Eternal torment (rather I hold to conditional immortality, complete destruction after some punishment of unrepentant) it will be interesting because I am a 'closet CI' and while me and the teacher are friends I know I am going to open my big mouth and dispel all rumors of my leanings.

To make this coming Sunday more interesting is that one outspoken lady in our group who is a frequent 'visitor' piped out to everyone's surprise "There is no such thing as hell, its nonsense" to which I said "this will be an interesting topic".

I may gain or lose a friendship, I don’t know, but I will not press the point too much just relate as Brody said and I will take his advice above of;
"If someone starts getting emotional, it's best to change the subject. / I usually give them a brief overview of the conditional immortality doctrine and move onto sharing the gospel with them / At this point you will probably get a funny look or two… The important thing is to not be so dogmatic, rather discuss the view with a sense of respect for those who disagree"

I would concur with Paidion that 'I also' get the above three responses to most everything I say, except I would add a fourth;
4. A common response: "You're Nuts!"

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Jepne
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Re: How to Discuss Hell with Others?

Post by Jepne » Fri Apr 27, 2012 12:08 pm

I am enjoying this topic. I am always surprised when a person gives testimony that when they were told they would go to hell if they did not 'accept Jesus' - they 'accepted' Him! Sometimes it is revealed that they were indoctrinated about hell when young and wanted 'fire insurance'. And sometimes the resultant walk with the Lord was short-lived, if they really walked with him at all.

I never believed in hell and all my life scoffed at people who put forth a God who threatened people with it. That is a painful issue for many people who believed God was like that and wanted no part of such a God. Possibly, that is why they get emotional at the mention of Hell, but, do they see their need to be rescued by the Jesus who gives us His holy spirit to change our hearts? One might ask one's self why is the topic coming up - the answer to that would determine the rest of the conversation.

I have 'gone through hell' on this earth, but it was always due to things I had done wrong and could not see (so I could repent), or things others did to me that I did not have the maturity to deal with. I imagine that the hell one faces after death is dealing with sins of commission and sins of omission. I wonder if things others do will affect us as strongly in the resurrection.

Most people believe we reap what we sow, so, when needing to address the topic, I usually present it like this, rather than the wrath or judgment of God. It would seem more understandable to others when one is presenting to them a God who is love, who wants to change our hearts, which is what provokes most people to call on Him in the first place.

Jesus always asked people questions. Here is one - "Does a loving earthly father correct his child forever, without hope that the child will learn and change his ways?"

We do not have to have all the answers - we don't have them anyway, but just be real about our own views, and fallibility. The main thing, someone told me long ago about talking with JWs, is to raise a question in their minds, so they will think and study it out for themselves.
"Anything you think you know about God that you can't find in the person of Jesus, you have reason to question.” - anonymous

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Perry
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Re: How to Discuss Hell with Others?

Post by Perry » Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:24 pm

This morning I was listening to one of Wayne Grudem's lectures during which he began extolling the virtues of telling people they're going to hell... <sigh>

Singalphile
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Re: How to Discuss Hell with Others?

Post by Singalphile » Fri Apr 27, 2012 9:43 pm

One might ask one's self why is the topic coming up - the answer to that would determine the rest of the conversation. ~ Jepne
That is good. I like that.
This morning I was listening to one of Wayne Grudem's lectures during which he began extolling the virtues of telling people they're going to hell... <sigh> ~ Perry
It seems odd to me too, but I guess he would say that it's good to warn a person about a looming danger. And although I also think that an eternal death/destruction is most likely, I still think that souls will perish in some place or condition that we call hell, and that it will at least be a time of sorrow and regret (more so than a person's first death, I suppose). I don't know of Wayne Grudem.

I had more or less decided to keep my opinion to myself for the most part because I'm not sure it's worth it. I don't know how important it is to have a correct view or at least be aware that there are different views. I wonder if those who hold the universal reconciliation view might think it is more worthwhile to bring up.
I wanted to respond to this because last Sunday my Sunday morning Bible study teacher promised us that this coming Sunday morning the topic would be H-e-l-l ~ jriccitelli
That will be interesting. ... the popular/traditional view just seems so very weak to me, I would be compelled to at least let people know that there are different views (if it's not otherwise brought up) in that kind of setting unless I really thought it would cause discord or any flare up. As I recall it, the only real discussions about hell that I ever had were about how horrible and sad it would be and whether there would be literal fire or not.
... that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. John 5:23

steve7150
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Re: How to Discuss Hell with Others?

Post by steve7150 » Sat Apr 28, 2012 9:49 am

I wonder if those who hold the universal reconciliation view might think it is more worthwhile to bring up.









With unbelievers i would wait to be asked & i would say that my take of the bible is that God can save folks after death and it is his will that everyone be saved so there is a lot to hope for.
With believers if it is a topic being discussed i would say pretty much the same thing although one has to be prepared to back it up with scripture and explain why certain translations of greek words into "hell" is inaccurate.

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Jepne
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Re: How to Discuss Hell with Others?

Post by Jepne » Sat Apr 28, 2012 10:51 am

"I don't know how important it is to have a correct view or at least be aware that there are different views. I wonder if those who hold the universal reconciliation view might think it is more worthwhile to bring up."

As Christians, we are basically called to be communicators - commune with God, and you will have something to commune with people about. If we love people, we will want to be able to hep them explore these topics which have to do with knowing God - His character and His great wonderful heart toward us, His children.


Doubts arise in my mind from time to time about the truth of the reconciliation, but that is the only view that gives me hope for any kind of future for man and God. If I die believing that I will see my parents and other loved ones who died atheists or in cults, I will die happy and God can comfort my heart somehow in the Resurrection.

But I don't think it will be like Jonathan Edwards' view, that we will sit in heaven enjoying watching people writher around in hell. Many folks fear and hate God because they think the He is really like that - so our words, and knowledge of scripture and God's heart, and with the Holy Spirit, we can be instrumental in setting the captives free. Yes!!
"Anything you think you know about God that you can't find in the person of Jesus, you have reason to question.” - anonymous

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