There may be one passages discouraging prayer for the dead, if sinning "unto death" is taken to mean "remaining unrepentant until death". I am not sure.
"If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin not to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not to death. There is sin to death. I do not say that he should pray about that." 1 John 5:16
Compassion when looking backward in time
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jriccitelli
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Re: Compassion when looking backward in time
Two quick notes; I always considered that not praying for a sin that lead to death (which would be different than the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit), was a grievous sin that had a death sentence attached, such as murder or treason etc. In such cases the earthly penalty was need paid, under Roman rule or other.
And I did not mean ‘Judgment’ happens at death, but our ‘time’ of repentance and works was finalized. Nothing more we can do at that point, except bend our knee and hope He doesn’t say depart I never knew you. Ciao
And I did not mean ‘Judgment’ happens at death, but our ‘time’ of repentance and works was finalized. Nothing more we can do at that point, except bend our knee and hope He doesn’t say depart I never knew you. Ciao
Re: Compassion when looking backward in time
Here is a post which offers an alternative explanation of this verse.Ralph wrote:He wanted me to pray for the salvation of his dead buddy. I explained that, based on the Bible, it was too late for me to pray for his buddy. I quoted, "And just as it is appointed for men to die once, and after that comes judgment, …" Heb 9:27
http://www.theos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=73&t=3202
Todd
Re: Compassion when looking backward in time
I am sympathetic toward UR, if not convinced, but the lack of any instruction in the Bible that we should be praying for the unbelieving dead (for their salvation, just as we would pray for those who are living) is something I have not considered and it seems it must be considered.
If UR is true then i think that the statements about "all" , like God being "all in all" are prophetic statements and as far as God is concerned it's already done, because it is God's will, so prayer may not matter in this particular matter.
If UR is true then i think that the statements about "all" , like God being "all in all" are prophetic statements and as far as God is concerned it's already done, because it is God's will, so prayer may not matter in this particular matter.
Re: Compassion when looking backward in time
In about the late 1970’s to early 1980‘s, I attended the funeral for an elderly man who I had known very well within my congregation. His life of faith and his public verbal confessions indicated that he was one who was trusting in Jesus Christ. At the end of the funeral service, I complimented my pastor on how well he had conducted the service. My pastor replied, “This one was easy.” I immediately asked him what he meant. His reply indicated to me that not all funeral services were easy for him, because the faith of the person being buried was sometimes uncertain to him as the pastor.
When I was younger, the formal, printed liturgical wordings for funeral and graveside services bothered me a lot. The liturgical wordings required the pastor to lead in prayers that were asking God to do accepting, merciful things for the person after death. It bothered me so much because I considered that prayers for a dead person would be ineffectual and that such prayers would lead human hearers to falsely believe that God will do things for a dead person that God has not explicitly promised to do. I thought the wordings of the prayers were misleading and unjustified.
In recent years, those formal, printed liturgical prayers do not bother me as they did, because I have grown to realize that there are pastoral considerations at funeral and graveside services for the living, just as there are pastoral considerations when handling many other difficult things for the living people within a congregation. A funeral is for the living. It is not for the dead. The living people must move on and continue to live faithfully. The living people must believe that after the funeral and burial, everything has been done for the dead person that can be done. At that point, petitions to God for the dead person have been publicly spoken aloud, and the whole matter of the dead person’s future must thereafter be left in the hands of God who is merciful. There is nothing more that can be done for the dead by the living mourners.
In like manner, if it helps an individual person who did not attend the funeral to move forward in life by praying once for God to have mercy on a dead person who is of personal concern, then I think it is acceptable for the living person to pray once.
When I was younger, the formal, printed liturgical wordings for funeral and graveside services bothered me a lot. The liturgical wordings required the pastor to lead in prayers that were asking God to do accepting, merciful things for the person after death. It bothered me so much because I considered that prayers for a dead person would be ineffectual and that such prayers would lead human hearers to falsely believe that God will do things for a dead person that God has not explicitly promised to do. I thought the wordings of the prayers were misleading and unjustified.
In recent years, those formal, printed liturgical prayers do not bother me as they did, because I have grown to realize that there are pastoral considerations at funeral and graveside services for the living, just as there are pastoral considerations when handling many other difficult things for the living people within a congregation. A funeral is for the living. It is not for the dead. The living people must move on and continue to live faithfully. The living people must believe that after the funeral and burial, everything has been done for the dead person that can be done. At that point, petitions to God for the dead person have been publicly spoken aloud, and the whole matter of the dead person’s future must thereafter be left in the hands of God who is merciful. There is nothing more that can be done for the dead by the living mourners.
In like manner, if it helps an individual person who did not attend the funeral to move forward in life by praying once for God to have mercy on a dead person who is of personal concern, then I think it is acceptable for the living person to pray once.
Ralph