The Narrow Path Ministries

If universalism is true, What is the purpose of life on earth? Though the Calvinist will disagree, it seems clear to me that God has given to man free-will. In doing so, in a sense at least, God took a risk, and He must have had a reason, or reasons, for doing so. If the purpose of life is a sort of preparation, and testing, to prepare for an eternal life in the presence of God, then what is accomplished by life on earth if the just and unjust all wind up in the same place, with God?

Is the purpose of life on earth no more than an opportunity for some to escape a temporary period in a sort of purgatory? It may be said that the purpose of life on earth is to determine rewards, or a higher position of responsibility in the new earth. Certainly the scriptures allude to rewards and responsibilities. But is this what the martyrs suffered and died for? That they might be marginally better off than Hitler or Hugh Heffner in the future state?

If either deterministic system (Calvinism, universalism) is true, why did God bother with life on earth at all?

Homer,

It seems to me that the purpose of life—whether universalism is true or not—remains the same: to glorify God and to enjoy Him forever. Those who understand this earlier in life, get a jump on those who don't learn it until later. Assuming this is true, then those who glorify God in this life have discovered (to their eternal delight) something that everyone else must belatedly discover.

It seems to me that the rewards for this are not minimal, and the losses for those who neglect it are huge. However, more importantly, God loses out when we live our lives in ignorance of, neglect of or rebellion against this purpose. It seems to me, in the cosmic scheme of things, what God loses out on should weigh more heavily on our concerns than what an individual loses out on, and everyone will know this someday—many to their profound (and possibly eternal) regret.

Hi Steve,

Thanks for your reply. What I am most interested in is what God gets for His trouble. It would seem that Calvinism's ideas could be true on a universal scale, that is, that it would have been possible for God to have made all "elect" in the Calvinist sense without free will. He could "regenerate" everyone and they would all love and glorify Him irresistably. Yet He granted free will, only to see a great number refuse to believe, rebel, choose to go their own way, etc. Then, according to the universalist, he will correct them in a kind of purgatory, so all eventually wind up in the same condition. So what then is in it for God to see what man will do in this life?

I can see the triune God creating man to share in the love that the Father, the Word, and Spirit shared, but in this life it is experienced by faith, and, I believe, through free will. I can imagine no scenario where, post resurrection and judgement, that the same relationship could be established. It seems kind of like a rapist who beat the woman until she submitted and the claimed it was consensual, that she had a choice: more beating or submission.

Is it supposed by the universalists that there will forever be two classes of citizens in heaven - those that lived by faith in this life and those converted after this life by other means? I do not recall this ever being discussed.

Is it supposed by the universalists that there will forever be two classes of citizens in heaven - those that lived by faith in this life and those converted after this life by other means? I do not recall this ever being discussed.+



I have to once again bring up the verse that is consistently ignored which is what Paul said in 2 Cor 4.4 "the devil blinds the minds of unbelievers" which if this is true means we don't really have a so called freewill because this statement decisively contradicts this premise. The freewill doctrine is never stated in scripture it is a deduction based on God asking us to choose. IMO we have a will which is heavily influenced by Satan, by sin , by circumstances, by our nature and everyone lives within a vastly different playing field which influences our thinking and our ability to preceive God and our ability to love God.
From my prespective this is not justice if this life is the only opportunity to choose your eternal destiny therefore if for no other reason then God being a God of justice he will unblind the eyes of unbelievers after death and let them choose using true freewill. I'm not a hardcore universalist i think unbelievers must pay for their sins and if they then choose not to be with God , then they will be destroyed. Once someone is able to leave the lake of fire and enter through the open gates of New Jerusalem IMO his sins will be forgotten by God and there will be no second class citizens.

I don't know whether the term second-class citizens applies, but I do believe there will be differences in rank in the resurrection. Some will rule (those who suffer with Christ today), and others will be ruled over. Even among those who rule, there will be some who rule over ten cities, and some who rule over five. The ranking may be almost infinitely graded, since every man will receive according to his works, which vary in quality and quantity between one individual and all others.

It seems kind of like a rapist who beat the woman until she submitted and the claimed it was consensual, that she had a choice: more beating or submission.

More like a child being disciplined into submission by a parent. The difference between the rape analogy and the child-discipline analogy would be that the former would be a case of criminal violation by an unentitled perpetrator, while the latter would be the normal activity of a father fulfilling his duty as a parent.

I do love the title of this thread. It seems that what we believe must tie in with our whole purpose in this life, which I also see as an opportunity to come to know God and glorify Him.

Steve 7150 The freewill doctrine is never stated in scripture it is a deduction based on God asking us to choose. IMO we have a will which is heavily influenced by Satan, by sin , by circumstances, by our nature and everyone lives within a vastly different playing field which influences our thinking and our ability to perceive God and our ability to love God.

But we are held accountable for that choice, regardless of our upbringing or surroundings, or Satan’s hold on us. We always have to deal with the fruit, the result, of our choices, no matter what. No?

unbelievers must pay for their sins

Some folks we talked with thought that by the reconciliation of all things, we were saying that unbelievers would pay for their own sins by suffering in hell for a time rather than accepting what they regarded as Jesus' payment. What would an unbeliever have that he could pay with?

When I hurt bad, I look for God and wonder what I can do to not hurt, then God, in His kindness, leads to repentance, and when we repent, things are made right. Restitution is made. Everyone’s happy. No? Punishment in itself will not change my heart or make things right.

When I hurt bad, I look for God and wonder what I can do to not hurt, then God, in His kindness, leads to repentance, and when we repent, things are made right. Restitution is made. Everyone’s happy. No? Punishment in itself will not change my heart or make things right.







True but unbelievers will reap what they sow at least as i understand scripture therefore whatever reaping entails it may not be for reconciliation, it may be for justice.
I just don't believe eternal punishment is just nor pleases God and is simply vindictive and i don't think scripture teaches it. We have had numerous discussions on the correct translations of certain greek words like "aionios" and there are various opinions.

True but unbelievers will reap what they sow at least as i understand scripture therefore whatever reaping entails it may not be for reconciliation, it may be for justice.

I see scripture saying that everyone reaps what he sows. When a believer or an unbeliever reaps what he has sown, and realizes that it is a fix he got himself into, he can become reconciled back to God if he humbles himself, and that would be just in the sense that justice is 'making things right'.

I concur with you about eternal punishment.