Steve7150 wrote:Paidion, Re the expression "every tongue shall confess Christ as Lord" does the greek word for "confess" mean a voluntary confession?
This is a compound Greek word "ἐξομολογεω" consisting the root word "λογεω" which means to express oneself in speech, "ἐξ" (transliteration "ex") which means "out of" (The English word "exit" comes from "ἐξ"), and "ὁμο" (translateration "homo") which means "the same" (The English word "homogenized" comes from this. In homogenized milk, the milk and cream can no longer be separated; they are "made the same").
I'm not sure why the first prefix is used in the word. But looking at the rest of it, and its context, I believe "ἐξομολογεω" to mean "express the same" or "agree". So in Phillipians 2:10, 11 we have:
... that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue agree that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
I don't think a person can be forced to agree with anything. He may be forced to SAY that he agrees, but not to actually agree to that which he does not really believe. When a person truly agrees that Jesus Christ is Lord, then he is saved.
... because, if you confess ("ὁμολογεω") with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. Romans 10:9
And re "torment" i think you have said it's like the refining of gold therefore do we really know what this entails considering that Paul said that it's the goodness of God that brings men to repentance. What would torture actually accomplish whether eternal or millions of years?
The word translated "torment" actually means "testing" as I showed in a previous post in this thread. Torture alone probably wouldn't accomplish anything. I doubt that it would "satisfy" God, by accomplishing His legal requirements (if He had any) for past sin. God is not interested in dealing with past sin, but with present reality. It's our present live sins with which God is concerned. He wants to change our natures so that we will not wish to do these things anymore.
Lastly back to "aionios" isn't this word the adjective of "aion" meaning pertaining to the age or "age abiding" as Rotherham's translates therefore if it pertains to the age , does your opinion that the LOF may be millions of years have real scriptural support?
I think that "aionios" means either "permanent" or "going from age to age."
I didn't invent the idea that those in the Lake of Fire (at least some of them) may be there for millions of years. Here is how I came to that conclusion:
...and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulphur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tested for ages of ages. Revelation 20:10
How long is an age? Well, the millenial age will be 1000 years. The various ages may vary in length, but let's assume an age is 1000 years. Some ages may have been much more than that, but it is unlikely that any of them have been or will be LESS than that. So using that MINIMUM,
one age of ages would be 1000 periods of 1000 years each ---- that is, a million years. Thus "ages of ages" would be more than one age of ages; it would be at least two ages of ages ---- two million years. We don't know how many ages of ages, this might be.
If it were 800 ages of ages, this would translate into 800 million years.
The text states that it will be the Devil, the Beast (Antichrist) and the False Prophet who will be tested in the Lake of Fire for ages of ages. Others may be there for a much shorter duration. We do not know. This has not been revealed.
Origen said, "Little by little and individually the correction and purification will be accomplished. Some will lead the way and climb to the heights with swifter progress, others following right behind them; yet ohters will be FAR behind. Thus multitudes of individuals and countless orders, who once were enemies, will advance and reconcile themselves to God; and so at length the last enemy will be reached...