Is UR fair to those who believe NOW?

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TK
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Is UR fair to those who believe NOW?

Post by TK » Thu Oct 16, 2008 10:05 am

Last night I was teaching a bible study class and i somewhat bravely brought up the various views of hell, namely universal reconciliation. My intent was to point out that there are legitimate other viewpoints about hell held by real christians (not just heretics!) that i suspect many in the room had never even heard of.

at any rate, in reference to UR, one person made the following statement (in so many words): "It doesnt seem fair that a person who makes the choice to follow Christ now will, in the end, receive no greater reward than those who reject Christ in this lifetime and only accept him after ages of "correction" in hell."

What is the UR response to this sentiment?

thx,

TK

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Paidion
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Re: Is UR fair to those who believe NOW?

Post by Paidion » Thu Oct 16, 2008 6:31 pm

Perhaps our Lord's Kingdom Parable in Matthew 20:1-15 is applicable. Those who were hired late in the day and had worked only an hour were given the same wages as those who worked all day.

Consider also, that those who will be corrected in Gehenna for many ages, perhaps millions of years, will have to undergo far more pain, remorse, and correction than disciples who live a few brief years here on earth.

However, who is to say that all will receive the same reward? The scriptures seem to indicate that there will be a variety of rewards appropriate to the degree of faithfulness of the recipients. For example, the overcomers will receive special rewards that not everyone gets.
Last edited by Paidion on Sat Oct 25, 2008 2:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Paidion

Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.

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Theophilus
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Re: Is UR fair to those who believe NOW?

Post by Theophilus » Thu Oct 16, 2008 11:36 pm

"It doesnt seem fair that a person who makes the choice to follow Christ now will, in the end, receive no greater reward than those who reject Christ in this lifetime and only accept him after ages of "correction" in hell."
Problems with this statement:

1. It reflects a self perspective, not God's perspective. It's a good thing Jesus didn't think this way!
2. How is this loving our brothers and sisters?
3. Is sin better than obedience to Christ? The wages of sin is death, so those who continue to commit sin are suffering. They are not getting over on anything.
4. The above quote is reminiscent of Lot's wife looking back at Sodom.

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TK
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Re: Is UR fair to those who believe NOW?

Post by TK » Fri Oct 17, 2008 7:38 am

thanks for the input- all the thoughts you mention went through my head, but i didnt really have time to address them all, and i didnt want to embarrass anybody.

your thought about the parable of the hired laborers may indeed be applicable, paidion.

TK

schoel
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Re: Is UR fair to those who believe NOW?

Post by schoel » Fri Oct 17, 2008 8:52 am

TK wrote: at any rate, in reference to UR, one person made the following statement (in so many words): "It doesnt seem fair that a person who makes the choice to follow Christ now will, in the end, receive no greater reward than those who reject Christ in this lifetime and only accept him after ages of "correction" in hell."

Luke 15:25-32
15:25 “Now his older son was in the field. As he came and approached the house, he heard music and dancing. 15:26 So he called one of the slaves and asked what was happening. 15:27 The slave replied, ‘Your brother has returned, and your father has killed the fattened calf because he got his son back safe and sound.’ 15:28 But the older son became angry and refused to go in. His father came out and appealed to him, 15:29 but he answered his father, ‘Look! These many years I have worked like a slave for you, and I never disobeyed your commands. Yet you never gave me even a goat so that I could celebrate with my friends! 15:30 But when this son of yours came back, who has devoured your assets with prostitutes, you killed the fattened calf for him!’ 15:31 Then the father said to him, ‘Son, you are always with me, and everything that belongs to me is yours. 15:32 It was appropriate to celebrate and be glad, for your brother was dead, and is alive; he was lost and is found.’”


Shouldn't our joy be that others, no matter how despicable they were, have turned to follow Christ?
Rather than worry about if we have recieved our fair share, shouldn't we rejoice in God's redemption of others?


Dave

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darinhouston
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Re: Is UR fair to those who believe NOW?

Post by darinhouston » Fri Oct 17, 2008 9:18 am

Thank God that we aren't saved on the basis of what's fair.

steve7150
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Re: Is UR fair to those who believe NOW?

Post by steve7150 » Fri Oct 24, 2008 9:52 pm

"It doesnt seem fair that a person who makes the choice to follow Christ now will, in the end, receive no greater reward than those who reject Christ in this lifetime and only accept him after ages of "correction" in hell."





Why would there be no greater reward? I think the true believer in this age would be immeasurably rewarded by ruling and reigning with Christ , by simply being in his presence sooner and accepted by him and by knowing that eventually his loved ones who were unbelievers in this age will someday be with him.
Is it fairer to him to know that his mother or sister or father or brother or good friend will be tormented in hell forever? Is this true joy?

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Homer
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Re: Is UR fair to those who believe NOW?

Post by Homer » Tue Oct 28, 2008 12:50 am

3. Is sin better than obedience to Christ? The wages of sin is death, so those who continue to commit sin are suffering. They are not getting over on anything.
Hmmm, I didn't realize ol' Hugh Heffner had suffered so much in this life.... I wonder if he knows it.

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TK
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Re: Is UR fair to those who believe NOW?

Post by TK » Tue Oct 28, 2008 8:13 am

homer-

i brought your objection up several times in the old forum, especially with Todd (father of five), who assured me that he IS suffering, all appearances to the contrary.

quite frankly, however, if a person is intellectually honest, they must acknowledge that many sinners are not reaping what they sow (at least in this life). even solomon stated as much in ecclesiastes.

TK

paulespino
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Re: Is UR fair to those who believe NOW?

Post by paulespino » Sun Nov 02, 2008 1:42 am

Matthew 20:1-15 click this link to read the passage

I would like to share my understanding of this passage. This passage was written in parable and parable has similarities with metaphor. Metaphor has an equivalent meaning in our real life and it is the same with parable. The question is what is the equivalent meaning of this parable in our real life.

"1 “For the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out early in the morning to hire laborers for his vineyard. 2 Now when he had agreed with the laborers for a denarius a day, he sent them into his vineyard." I have listed the equivalent meaning.

Vineyard = Kingdom of God
Hired workers ( laborers) = The saved people ( workers of God)
Denarius = Reward

The hired workers are the saved people. These workers were hired because they agreed to the conditions of the landowner regarding the job that has to be done. If they did not agree with the owner then they can not be hired. This is the same with us today in order for us to become the workers of God, He has to save us first and in order for us to be save we have to agree with the conditions of God.

The equivalent meaning of the hired workers working in the vineyard is that the saved people are also working in the spiritual kingdom God.

Conclusion:
Therefore the workers in the parable are the saved people and among the saved people some will be last and some will be first. God has the right to choose who among the saved will receive a greater reward. The parable has got nothing to do with the unsaved people and therefore I think this parable is not applicable to hell.

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