Was it Possible for Adam and Eve Not to sin?

Post by **__id_2529** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:34 pm

If No:

That being said. In the orthodox view the whole race of man was "damned" from the get go. So to speak...

Was it part of Gods "plan" for them to sin?

If yes:

They never would have died?

They would be here today?

Post by **_STEVE7150** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:47 pm

If No:

That being said. In the orthodox view the whole race of man was "damned" from the get go. So to speak...

Good question and i think it was probably not possible for Eve not to be deceived but why did Adam listen to Eve? I think because he had the same weak spiritual nature that she had, which was built in by her Creator.

1. lust of the eyes
2. lust of the flesh
3. pride of life

I would'nt catagorized it as "damned" because God said that in "knowing good and evil they have become like us." Thus there is a purpose in mankind learning about and experiencing evil, and as they say it's a necessary evil.

Post by **__id_2529** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 9:41 pm

Steve. The point of knowing good of evil being necessary to "become like us"

I have heard this said but I don't understand how in the E.T view there can be justification for E.T if in fact God designed man to fall.

Post by **_STEVE7150** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 9:53 am

I have heard this said but I don't understand how in the E.T view there can be justification for E.T if in fact God designed man to fall.

Because their understanding is different. They believe that when the bible says when God made this or that and "it was good" means the word good equals perfect.
I think it means "good" for the purpose it was intended for. Am i adding words to scripture? Look at Eve's internal reaction to temptation and decide. Furthermore Adam and Eve had no experience dealing with evil and they have to resist the persuasions of the greatest deceiver in the universe.
And even if they resisted sucessfully i'll bet God would have tempted them again.

Post by **_TK** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 11:08 am

But your objection just misses the point. Why would God tempt Eve (if He knew they were going to fall) and subject them to all the ramifications of the curse, never mind ET.

One thing we can be sure of-- whatever God had in mind it was so that He would be glorified in the outcome.

TK

Post by **__id_2529** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 12:25 pm

STEVE7150 wrote:I have heard this said but I don't understand how in the E.T view there can be justification for E.T if in fact God designed man to fall.

Because their understanding is different. They believe that when the bible says when God made this or that and "it was good" means the word good equals perfect.
I think it means "good" for the purpose it was intended for. Am i adding words to scripture? Look at Eve's internal reaction to temptation and decide. Furthermore Adam and Eve had no experience dealing with evil and they have to resist the persuasions of the greatest deceiver in the universe.
And even if they resisted sucessfully i'll bet God would have tempted them again.

I thought it was the serpent who tempted them.

I have seen conversations play out like this.

1) Did Adam and Eve "malfunction"? Yes

2) Did God design man to fall? Yes

3) Did God know man was going to fall? Yes

4) Is God responsible. Yes.

If man is not capable of being righteous. Then he has no free will concerning sin. He must and is designed to.

HERESY!

maybe.....

Post by **_Paidion** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 12:44 pm

Contrary to classical theology, God has not designed a blueprint for mankind, so that every detail of that blueprint will be realized. If He had, and the world became what it has become, then God would be the author of every torture, rape, and murder that has ever come to pass!

God did not create automatons! He created rational, self-conscious people with the ability to chose.

One of the chief ways in which man was created in the image of God was to be given a free will. Adam and Eve had the ability to choose to obey God and refrain from eating of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, or to choose to disobey the command and eat. As we all know, they chose the latter.

Whatever choices man makes, God always has ways of dealing with man for his beneif in response to those choices. I am sure even then, God had a plan to redeem man, if he should make the wrong choice. Is that not the meaning of "the Lamb slain before the foundation of the earth"? God knows every possible choice man can make, and He can deal with any one of them. That is God's greateness!

We do not know all that would have happened had they chose to continue in obedience. We can only speculate. I think we can say for sure that the world would be a far better place if man had never sinned.

Man will always be happier and healthier, rejoicing with unspeakable joy, when he obeys God. But even when he doesn't obey, God still has a plan for him.

Post by **__id_2529** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 1:32 pm

Paidion wrote:Contrary to classical theology, God has not designed a blueprint for mankind, so that every detail of that blueprint will be realized. If He had, and the world became what it has become, then God would be the author of every torture, rape, and murder that has ever come to pass!

God did not create automatons! He created rational, self-conscious people with the ability to chose.

One of the chief ways in which man was created in the image of God was to be given a free will. Adam and Eve had the ability to choose to obey God and refrain from eating of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, or to choose to disobey the command and eat. As we all know, they chose the latter.

Whatever choices man makes, God always has ways of dealing with man for his beneif in response to those choices. I am sure even then, God had a plan to redeem man, if he should make the wrong choice. Is that not the meaning of "the Lamb slain before the foundation of the earth"? God knows every possible choice man can make, and He can deal with any one of them. That is God's greateness!

We do not know all that would have happened had they chose to continue in obedience. We can only speculate. I think we can say for sure that the world would be a far better place if man had never sinned.

Man will always be happier and healthier, rejoicing with unspeakable joy, when he obeys God. But even when he doesn't obey, God still has a plan for him.

thanks for your insights! This kind of view makes plenty of sense to me. Its the ET view that makes me scratch my head.

Do you actually think Adam and Eve had the free will not to sin?

Post by **_STEVE7150** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 6:23 pm

I thought it was the serpent who tempted them.

The Serpent was Satan who is the greatest deceiver in the universe.

Post by **_STEVE7150** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 6:29 pm

God has not designed a blueprint for mankind, so that every detail of that blueprint will be realized. If He had, and the world became what it has become, then God would be the author of every torture, rape, and murder that has ever come to pass!

I think God does have a blueprint for mankind although i don't think He micro-manages every detail.
For some reason beyond just punishment, i think God decided mankind as a whole needs to experience evil for a greater good. We do know overcoming physical resistence builds physical muscles so perhaps the same principal applies spiritually.