"Aionios" NEVER means "eternal"

[karenstricycle]

Todd,

I hope we can avoid a logomachy regarding English words (I'm trying); we've had more than enough regarding the Greek.

e·ter·nal (-tûrnl)
adj.
1. Being without beginning or end; existing outside of time. See Synonyms at infinite.
2. Continuing without interruption; perpetual.
3. Forever true or changeless: eternal truths.
4. Seemingly endless; interminable. See Synonyms at ageless, continual.
5. Of or relating to spiritual communion with God, especially in the afterlife.
n.
1. Something timeless, uninterrupted, or endless.
2. Eternal God. Used with the.

Why do you think eternal punishment must have no beginning? That's a new concept to me. We aren't like the Mormons teach and Origen taught, that is pre-existant. We were born into this world and, if we are punished eternally, it (the punishment) will have a starting point. See adj. #2 above, n. #1.

Thanks for your patience!

[Guest]

Why do you think eternal punishment must have no beginning?




Interesting that believers who inherit eternal life are explicitly said to receive immortal , imperishable, indestructable, glorified bodies in no uncertain terms , yet not a hint of this toward unbelievers who traditionally are believed to have eternal life in hell.

[Guest]

Why do you think eternal punishment must have no beginning? That's a new concept to me. We aren't like the Mormons teach and Origen taught, that is pre-existant. We were born into this world and, if we are punished eternally, it (the punishment) will have a starting point. See adj. #2 above, n. #3.

Thanks for your patience!

I agree that our punishment must have a starting point. But nothing that is eternal can have a starting point by definition. Therefore, it must not be the punishment that is eternal, it must be the punisher that is eternal (God). If my logic is correct, then the punishment can also have an end.

I guess another way to say it is that there is a certain kind of punishment which is eternal; namely, Godly punishment. This "Godly punishment" has always existed without beginning or end. Someone can suffer Godly punishment, but the suffering has a beginning and an end. The punishment is according to works (is proportional).

Godly wisdom is eternal wisdom, life in God is eternal life, and Godly punishment is eternal punishment. It is not describing a length of time; it is describing a certain type of punishment that has its source in God.

Todd

[karenstricycle]

Todd,

Corrected my last post. I indicated n. #3, should have been n. #1.

You wrote:

But nothing that is eternal can have a starting point by definition.

Where do you get this definition?

[Guest]

Todd,

Corrected my last post. I indicated n. #3, should have been n. #1.

You wrote:

But nothing that is eternal can have a starting point by definition.

Where do you get this definition?

From your post.

1. Being without beginning or end;

Things that are eternal have no beginning (starting point) and no end.

Todd

[Guest]

Todd-

perhaps i am missing something, but it is clear that there is more than one definition of "eternal," per the definitions posted by Homer. i have always thought of "eternal life" as equivalent with a never ending life(i.e. everlasting). i know there is more to it than that, however i never thought of it as a life that never had a beginning. my life began at conception. my eternal life will have no end.

it's kind of like asking "Which is longer, a line that extends forever in one direction only, or a line that extends forever in both directions?" the question has no practical answer, at least to my limited brain.

TK

[Guest]

Todd-

perhaps i am missing something, but it is clear that there is more than one definition of "eternal," per the definitions posted by Homer. i have always thought of "eternal life" as equivalent with a never ending life(i.e. everlasting). i know there is more to it than that, however i never thought of it as a life that never had a beginning. my life began at conception. my eternal life will have no end.

Hi TK,

Yes, what you have described is the way many people think of "eternal life" or "eternal punishment". They have no end. If this is what the original intent of the word "eternal" meant to the authors of the NT then that is correct. If so, it should have been translated "unending" or "forevermore" instead of "eternal" IMO.

I was trying to point out that there is another way to understand these terms using the accepted english meaning of the word "eternal" without having to debate the original greek words.

All of God's attributes are eternal. His love is eternal; His wisdom is eternal; His Truth is eternal; Life in Him is eternal life; Punishment from Him is eternal punishment. Even though one's participation in "eternal punishment" may be finite with a beginning and an end, it is still eternal due to the fact that the punishment has the Eternal God as its source. His ways are unchangeble (eternal).

It's just another way to think about this issue....which may (or may not) be correct. For me, this seems to be more consistent with God's eternal purpose (Eph 3:11).

By the way, speaking of God's "eternal" purpose,....is it "eternal" because it has no end date?...or because it comes from God?

Todd

[Guest]

I have not yet had opportunity to read this entire post, and if you have already talked about the adjective describing the happenings during an age, then please forgive my intrusion here.

It is my understanding that aionos describes the purpose and the things happening during the age. We have coined the "Industrial Age" for example. During this "age" of undefined length, exactly, Industry was instrumental in history.

When the Bible speaks of the "Ends of the Ages", I think it means that period of time when two ages meet...the ending of one, and the beginning of another. I think we are near one now.

I'll copy this thread and read it later, Lord willing, and try to more inteligently contribute to this important discussion of aion or olam.

peace, dmatic