Jude 5:7
In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.
This scripture needs to be part of this discussion. Here is a biblical example of where the word "eternal" does not depict a length of time. It's just a guess on my part, but I suspect those fires only lasted days or weeks at most. The source of the punishment was from the eternal God; these cities suffered a devine judgment.
Or perhaps another way to look at the meaning of "eternal punishment" is that it is the result of the punishment that has a permanent effect on the one being punished. The punishing doesn't last forever, but it has a life-changing effect. In the case of the residents of Sodom, it was a life-ending event.
Do the residents of Sodom face additional punishments on judgment day? Apparently so, but their punishment will be "more bearable" than for some others. This leads me to think that the punishing they will receive will not last forever, but it will have a life-changing effect (an eternal effect).
Matt 10:15
I tell you the truth, it will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town.
Todd
Aionios means "Age to Age"?
Re: Aionios means "Age to Age"?
Once again, the passage is from Chrysostum's Homily of the Epistle of Saint Paul to the Ephesians, Homily 4:
Here again he means, that Satan occupies the space under Heaven, and that the incorporeal powers are spirits of the air, under his operation. For that his kingdom is αιωνιος, in other words that it will cease with the present age, hear what he says at the end of the Epistle."
In this passage, Chrysostum said as clearly as possible what it means to say that Satan's kingdom is αιωνιος, namely, "in other words that it will cease with the present age".
Homer, I looked up the quote you gave of Chrsysostum. Thanks for the link.
In the context, Chrysostum gave the same argument that his contemporaries, Augustine and Jerome gave --- And “these shall go into everlasting life, but these into everlasting punishment.” (Matt. xxv. 46.) Now if the life be eternal, the punishment is eternal.
All I can suggest is that when he wrote the Ephesians homily, he gave the true meaning of αιωνιος, but when he wrote his Romans homilies, he had been influenced by Jerome and Augustine who in their day translated the word into Latin as "æternum" (I hope I have the Latin word right; I did it from memory). Prior to Jerome and Augustine's redefinition, everyone knew that "αιωνιος" meant "lasting" or "durable" or "permanent", but from that point on, it was assigned the meaning "eternal".
In any case, regardless of who wrote it, the contrasting of "temporary" with αιωνιος, does not automatically render the meaning of "αιωνιος" as "eternal". You can have a temporary driver's licence or a permanent driver's licence, but having a permanent one doesn't imply that you'll have it for eternity.
The author of the passage in the longer recension, seems to say that if one "tasted the death bearing fruit" of Theodotus and Cleobulus, he will instantly die, and that he "dies not the temporary death but the αιωνιος." In other words, it won't just be the temporary death of one who will be raised to live again when Christ comes, but he will be faced with a LASTING death, one that will last for ages in Gehenna (the second death).
Here again he means, that Satan occupies the space under Heaven, and that the incorporeal powers are spirits of the air, under his operation. For that his kingdom is αιωνιος, in other words that it will cease with the present age, hear what he says at the end of the Epistle."
In this passage, Chrysostum said as clearly as possible what it means to say that Satan's kingdom is αιωνιος, namely, "in other words that it will cease with the present age".
Homer, I looked up the quote you gave of Chrsysostum. Thanks for the link.
In the context, Chrysostum gave the same argument that his contemporaries, Augustine and Jerome gave --- And “these shall go into everlasting life, but these into everlasting punishment.” (Matt. xxv. 46.) Now if the life be eternal, the punishment is eternal.
All I can suggest is that when he wrote the Ephesians homily, he gave the true meaning of αιωνιος, but when he wrote his Romans homilies, he had been influenced by Jerome and Augustine who in their day translated the word into Latin as "æternum" (I hope I have the Latin word right; I did it from memory). Prior to Jerome and Augustine's redefinition, everyone knew that "αιωνιος" meant "lasting" or "durable" or "permanent", but from that point on, it was assigned the meaning "eternal".
It is moot whether ANY of the current writings ascribed to Ignatius, were actually written by him. So this could have been the work of someone in the late fourth or early fifth century. It is almost certain that the longer recension, where this quote is found, is not genuine.You wrote:From Ignatius (translation can be found at http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Ante-Nice ... Chapter_XI.)
φεύγετε καὶ τὰ τοῦ πονηροῦ ἔγγονα Θεόδοτον καὶ Κλεόβουλον, τὰ γεννῶντα καρπὸν θανατηφόρον, οὗ ἐάν τις γεύσηται, παραυτίκα ἀποθνήσκει οὐ τὸν πρόσκαιρον θάνατον, ἀλλὰ τὸν αἰώνιον.
"dies not the temporary death but the aionios death"
In any case, regardless of who wrote it, the contrasting of "temporary" with αιωνιος, does not automatically render the meaning of "αιωνιος" as "eternal". You can have a temporary driver's licence or a permanent driver's licence, but having a permanent one doesn't imply that you'll have it for eternity.
The author of the passage in the longer recension, seems to say that if one "tasted the death bearing fruit" of Theodotus and Cleobulus, he will instantly die, and that he "dies not the temporary death but the αιωνιος." In other words, it won't just be the temporary death of one who will be raised to live again when Christ comes, but he will be faced with a LASTING death, one that will last for ages in Gehenna (the second death).
Paidion
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.
Re: Aionios means "Age to Age"?
I'm reading this and like it a lot. I don't know enough about the subject to say anything at this time. I was wondering though, can any view be presented stronger simply through the context of passage itself?
Re: Aionios means "Age to Age"?
RV asked:
The writers of the four gospels used aionios some 29 times. Overwhelmingly (26 times), the word was used as an adjectively of the "eternal" or "everlasting" life of the saved. The other times it is used adjectively of the end state of the lost. In the rest of the New Testament the overwhelming use is also adjectively of eternal life. In context, it is used in antithetical statements about the saved and lost in the age to come. When you read the New Testament, do you get the impression that the life in the age to come, for the saved, is eternal, or everlasting, or merely "durable" or "lasting"?
Paidion is fond of pointing out that aionios might mean "permanent", and that a driver's license or woman's hairdo can be said to be "permanent" when it will not last. Well, how about "durable" or "lasting" (Paidion's explanation of the meaning of aionios)? Is it any comfort to know the saved will have "durable" or "lasting" life? I like to buy Clarks shoes because they are so durable, or lasting, and thus economical. But I just recently tossed a worn out pair.
You can not make the state of the lost temporal without destroying the assurance of the saved.
Just consider what Matthew writes in context:
Matthew 18:6-9 (New King James Version)
6. “Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to sin, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were drowned in the depth of the sea. 7. Woe to the world because of offenses! For offenses must come, but woe to that man by whom the offense comes!
8. “If your hand or foot causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you. It is better for you to enter into life lame or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet, to be cast into the everlasting fire. 9. And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you. It is better for you to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire.
Matthew 19:16-30 (New King James Version)
16. Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal (aionios) life?”
17. So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
18. He said to Him, “Which ones?”
Jesus said, “ ‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’”
20. The young man said to Him, “All these things I have kept from my youth. What do I still lack?”
21. Jesus said to him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”
22. But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions.
23. Then Jesus said to His disciples, “Assuredly, I say to you that it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24. And again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”
25. When His disciples heard it, they were greatly astonished, saying, “Who then can be saved?”
26. But Jesus looked at them and said to them, “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”
27. Then Peter answered and said to Him, “See, we have left all and followed You. Therefore what shall we have?”
28. So Jesus said to them, “Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29. And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or lands, for My name’s sake, shall receive a hundredfold, and inherit eternal (aionios) life. 30. But many who are first will be last, and the last first.
Matthew 25:41-45 (New King James Version)
41. “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting (aionios) fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42. for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43. I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’
44. “Then they also will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ 45. Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’
46. And these will go away into everlasting (aionios) punishment, but the righteous into eternal (aionios) life.”
I can give assurance of one "never". The Universalist can never admit that aionios can mean eternal. If so, their whole system is destroyed.
I believe it certainly can, at least to an open mind. Paidion insists that "aionios never means eternal". This he can never prove. words are used literally, figuratively, and idiomatically. It does not matter what meaning Plato attached to the word, or the translaters of the Septuagint, etc., etc. All that matters is what the New Testament writers meant to convey when they used the word. As one writer (a universalist) wrote concerning the ideomatic use of aionios, it means "a peanut butter sandwich" if that is the meaning the people in a particular time and place attach to it.I was wondering though, can any view be presented stronger simply through the context of passage itself?
The writers of the four gospels used aionios some 29 times. Overwhelmingly (26 times), the word was used as an adjectively of the "eternal" or "everlasting" life of the saved. The other times it is used adjectively of the end state of the lost. In the rest of the New Testament the overwhelming use is also adjectively of eternal life. In context, it is used in antithetical statements about the saved and lost in the age to come. When you read the New Testament, do you get the impression that the life in the age to come, for the saved, is eternal, or everlasting, or merely "durable" or "lasting"?
Paidion is fond of pointing out that aionios might mean "permanent", and that a driver's license or woman's hairdo can be said to be "permanent" when it will not last. Well, how about "durable" or "lasting" (Paidion's explanation of the meaning of aionios)? Is it any comfort to know the saved will have "durable" or "lasting" life? I like to buy Clarks shoes because they are so durable, or lasting, and thus economical. But I just recently tossed a worn out pair.
You can not make the state of the lost temporal without destroying the assurance of the saved.
Just consider what Matthew writes in context:
Matthew 18:6-9 (New King James Version)
6. “Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to sin, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were drowned in the depth of the sea. 7. Woe to the world because of offenses! For offenses must come, but woe to that man by whom the offense comes!
8. “If your hand or foot causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you. It is better for you to enter into life lame or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet, to be cast into the everlasting fire. 9. And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you. It is better for you to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire.
Matthew 19:16-30 (New King James Version)
16. Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal (aionios) life?”
17. So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
18. He said to Him, “Which ones?”
Jesus said, “ ‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’”
20. The young man said to Him, “All these things I have kept from my youth. What do I still lack?”
21. Jesus said to him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”
22. But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions.
23. Then Jesus said to His disciples, “Assuredly, I say to you that it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24. And again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”
25. When His disciples heard it, they were greatly astonished, saying, “Who then can be saved?”
26. But Jesus looked at them and said to them, “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”
27. Then Peter answered and said to Him, “See, we have left all and followed You. Therefore what shall we have?”
28. So Jesus said to them, “Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29. And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or lands, for My name’s sake, shall receive a hundredfold, and inherit eternal (aionios) life. 30. But many who are first will be last, and the last first.
Matthew 25:41-45 (New King James Version)
41. “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting (aionios) fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42. for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43. I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’
44. “Then they also will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ 45. Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’
46. And these will go away into everlasting (aionios) punishment, but the righteous into eternal (aionios) life.”
I can give assurance of one "never". The Universalist can never admit that aionios can mean eternal. If so, their whole system is destroyed.
Re: Aionios means "Age to Age"?
That is pretty hard to argue against. I'd love to see a response to that. Off the top of my head, going to everlasting punishment doesn't have to mean a burning fire, but it sure does seem to indicate forever, whatever it is.Homer wrote:Matthew 25:41-45 (New King James Version)
41. “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting (aionios) fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42. for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43. I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’
44. “Then they also will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ 45. Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’
46. And these will go away into everlasting (aionios) punishment, but the righteous into eternal (aionios) life.”
Thanks Homer, looking forward to a response to that.
Re: Aionios means "Age to Age"?
I decided just to look up some scriptures myself using the word Aionios:
"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal (aionion) life. (John 6:47)
"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal (aionion) life. (John 6:47)
Re: Aionios means "Age to Age"?
OOPS... sorry push the button to quickly.
Continued:
John 6:47, "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal (aionion) life.
John 20:28, "and I give eternal (aionion) life to them, and they shall never perish; and no one shall snatch them out of My hand."
Acts 13:48, "And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal (aionion) life believed."
Romans 2:7, " to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal (aionion) life."
Romans 5:21, "that, as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal (aionion) life through Jesus Christ our Lord."
Rom. 16:26, " but now is manifested, and by the Scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the eternal (aionion) God, has been made known to all the nations, leading to obedience of faith."
Gal. 6:8, "For the one who sows to his own flesh shall from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit shall from the Spirit reap eternal (aionion) life."
1 Tim. 6:16, "who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light; whom no man has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal (aionion) dominion! Amen."
1 John 1:2, "and the life was manifested, and we have seen and bear witness and proclaim to you the eternal (aionion) life, which was with the Father and was manifested to us"
1 John 5:11, "And the witness is this, that God has given us eternal (aionion) life, and this life is in His Son."
Matt. 18:8, "And if your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than having two hands or two feet, to be cast into the eternal (aionion) fire.
Matt. 25:41, "Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal (aionion) fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;"
Matt. 25:46, "And these will go away into eternal (aionion) punishment, but the righteous into eternal (aionion) life."
Mark 3:29, "but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal (aionion) sin."
Mark 10:30, "but that he shall receive a hundred times as much now in the present age, houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and farms, along with persecutions; and in the age to come, eternal (aionion) life.
Luke 18:30, "who shall not receive many times as much at this time and in the age to come, eternal (aionion) life."
2 Thess. 1:9, "And these will pay the penalty of eternal (aionion) destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,"
Jude 7, "Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example, in undergoing the punishment of eternal (aionion) fire."
Continued:
John 6:47, "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal (aionion) life.
John 20:28, "and I give eternal (aionion) life to them, and they shall never perish; and no one shall snatch them out of My hand."
Acts 13:48, "And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal (aionion) life believed."
Romans 2:7, " to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal (aionion) life."
Romans 5:21, "that, as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal (aionion) life through Jesus Christ our Lord."
Rom. 16:26, " but now is manifested, and by the Scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the eternal (aionion) God, has been made known to all the nations, leading to obedience of faith."
Gal. 6:8, "For the one who sows to his own flesh shall from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit shall from the Spirit reap eternal (aionion) life."
1 Tim. 6:16, "who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light; whom no man has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal (aionion) dominion! Amen."
1 John 1:2, "and the life was manifested, and we have seen and bear witness and proclaim to you the eternal (aionion) life, which was with the Father and was manifested to us"
1 John 5:11, "And the witness is this, that God has given us eternal (aionion) life, and this life is in His Son."
Matt. 18:8, "And if your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than having two hands or two feet, to be cast into the eternal (aionion) fire.
Matt. 25:41, "Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal (aionion) fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;"
Matt. 25:46, "And these will go away into eternal (aionion) punishment, but the righteous into eternal (aionion) life."
Mark 3:29, "but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal (aionion) sin."
Mark 10:30, "but that he shall receive a hundred times as much now in the present age, houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and farms, along with persecutions; and in the age to come, eternal (aionion) life.
Luke 18:30, "who shall not receive many times as much at this time and in the age to come, eternal (aionion) life."
2 Thess. 1:9, "And these will pay the penalty of eternal (aionion) destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,"
Jude 7, "Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example, in undergoing the punishment of eternal (aionion) fire."
Re: Aionios means "Age to Age"?
I actually agree with Homer here. Trying to argue for Universal Reconciliation by saying that "eternal", as it is used with "life" and "punishment", is describing a length of time is a losing battle. If "eternal" is intended to convey the duration of the life/punishment then it must mean never-ending. However, it seems to me that "eternal" is describing "what kind of" life/punishment rather than its duration. The source of the life/punishment is from the Eternal Father. Eternal Life is inspired by the Spirit of God in the life of one who is guided by it. Eternal life is a blessing from God that we can have now - in this life - by being a disciple.Homer wrote:.You can not make the state of the lost temporal without destroying the assurance of the saved.
John 17:3
Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.
In this passage there is no hint that eternal has anything to do with duration; rather is describes the kind of life we can have through knowing God and Christ.
The same thing can be true about eternal punishment. When the punishment is from the Eternal God it is a devine punishment; no length of time is intended.
Eternal life is describing the changed life of one who has become a Christian guided by the Holy Spirit. Coversely, one who is overcome in sin will suffer the consequences, or, in other words, suffer devine (or eternal) punishment. Becoming a Christian is all about changing lives that they might reap the blessings of the Spirit through giving and loving others. Conversely, selfishness and carnal-mindedness bring guilt and shame.
I think we confuse eternal life with immortality. In the resurrection we will have immortality. In this life, we can have eternal life through following the Spirit of Christ.
One thing we know for sure about God is that He is just - He does what is right. Does it seem right to you for someone to endure infinite suffering for a finite amount of wrongdoing? No! Such a thing as this would be unjust. How do we know this?...because God put it in our hearts to know this.
Todd
Re: Aionios means "Age to Age"?
Hi Todd!
Blessings to you!
You wrote:
Homer
Blessings to you!
You wrote:
However, it seems to me that "eternal" is describing "what kind of" life/punishment rather than its duration.
John 17:3
Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.
In this passage there is no hint that eternal has anything to do with duration; rather is describes the kind of life we can have through knowing God and Christ.
So you argue that aionios refers to quality of a thing rather than time? Paidion argues it means lasting or durable, and you say it means changed, regenerated, or something similar? In the scriptures God is said to be aionios. His glory is said to be aionios. Your and Paidion's understanding seem totally inappropriate as an adjective for God. Think of how that meaning might sound as words of praise in a hymn!Eternal life is describing the changed life of one who has become a Christian guided by the Holy Spirit. Coversely, one who is overcome in sin will suffer the consequences, or, in other words, suffer devine (or eternal) punishment. Becoming a Christian is all about changing lives that they might reap the blessings of the Spirit through giving and loving others. Conversely, selfishness and carnal-mindedness bring guilt and shame.
Homer
Re: Aionios means "Age to Age"?
Yes, it is a great comfort! Even though the word "lasting" in itself, doesn't specify how long, we have the assurance that our life with Christ will never end. But that does not mean that we must assign the meaning "eternal" to "αιωνιος".Homer wrote:Is it any comfort to know the saved will have "durable" or "lasting" life?
I have stated over and over, and Steve Gregg has indicated so at least once, that the fact that a certain quality is present in an object does not necessitate that an adjective describing that object must possess that same quality. I doubt that this fact is beyond Homer's comprehension, since he is too bright for that. Rather, I think there is some sort of mental block to his acceptance of it.
In the case at hand, our Lord spoke of "lasting life" and "lasting correction" in the same breath. The life we have in Christ happens to be eternal, and the correction does not. But this fact in itself does not require us to assume that either the life and correction are both eternal, or else neither of them is eternal. For there is no reason to assume that the word "lasting" cannot apply to that which is eternal AS WELL AS that which is not eternal.
For another example, take the adjective "strong" in the sentence, "Samson was a strong man and Yahweh is a strong God". Because Yahweh's strength is actually omnipotence , does this require that the word "strong" must mean "omnipotent", and that therefore the sentence affirms that Samson was omnipotent?
Why not?You can not make the state of the lost temporal without destroying the assurance of the saved.
Paidion
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.