Luke 13

[mdh]

Thanks for the interesting replies. It seems to me that of all the alternative explanations you supplied of the passage in Luke 13, the idea of a national perishing is most likely considering Luke related the parable of the fig tree immediately following. However, this does not change anything regarding the understanding of the other texts, in particular Phillippians 3:18-19.

Homer,

I have for the longest time been meaning to get back with you on this. Been waiting for more mental energy and it may not happen. So I will go with what I got

It seems you wish to make your argument that because the verses in question states that the end of the person is destruction, that this leaves no room for universal reconciliation.

But is that the best understanding of the verses in context? I notice just 2 verses later Paul talks about how Christ is able to bring all into subjection to Himself(Phil 3:20-21):

For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ;
who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory, by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself.

BTW: The word destroy in the verse you are referring to could also mean "ruin, loss". So the question is, what is destroyed, ruined or lost? I notice that these people are said to have set their minds on earthly things. And we know that those things will come to an end. What will remain for these people when all they have lived for is gone? Could not you say that they had come to ruin?

In the previous chapter (2), Paul has spoken about the day when all will kneel before the Christ and declare His Lordship. And here in chapter 3 Paul declares Jesus is able to bring everyone and everything under Himself.

Now I suppose you could argue that Paul is referring to all who remain being brought under the authority of Christ (after annihilation of the wicked), but is that what makes the most sense? Would Christ destroy people right after they had bowed the knee and acknowledged His Lordship?

I love Phil. 3. I love how Paul has spoken of how he could have had more confidence than anyone in the flesh, in the things of this world. But he considered it all garbage and given it up for the excellence of knowing Christ, and obtaining the righteousness of God. Then:

that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death;
in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.

Notice that the desire of Paul was to share in the sufferings of Christ, being conformed to His death so that he might know HIM ! and arrive at the resurrection from the dead.

Awesome! Death and suffering prior to knowledge of Christ and resurrection. (and isn't knowing Christ equated to eternal life somewhere)

So much more to say.

Maybe the end of someone, isn't the END.

Blessings Homer!
Mike