Michelle, it says "Christ crucified" is a stumbling block (implying an unwarranted stumbling block), not that the message of everlasting torment is a stumbling block. The former is unjustified because it stems from a person`s pride (aka "why should someone have to die for my so-called sins?") while the latter, particularly when couched in such a venomous way as Jonathan Edwards, does seem to me like vengeance.
I don`t think Todd should feel embarrassed about posting this here.
But as this is merely a philosophical gut-feeling, I`m obliged to be wiling to be corrected.
Eternal Torment: why some people reject Christ
Re: Eternal Torment: why people reject Christianity
I was thinking this morning about the Ethiopian Eunich. After hearing the Good News he went away rejoicing. How could the knowledge that most of mankind will suffer eternal torment be something to rejoice about? However, if he was told that God, through Christ, had reconciled all things to himself, then that would indeed be good news, and something to rejoice about.
If people are rejecting Christianity due to the teaching of eternal torment, then they obviously do not receive the Gospel as Good News.
Todd
If people are rejecting Christianity due to the teaching of eternal torment, then they obviously do not receive the Gospel as Good News.
Todd
Re: Eternal Torment: why people reject Christianity
I've been thinking about it this morning as well. I'm not really sure what moves men to repentance.
I believe that persuading someone to turn to God in order to escape an eternity suffering in hellfire probably doesn't produce true repentance, since it's a dearly held view of mine that fear is a lousy motivator, unless the result you want is...fear. It's an ineffective evangelistic technique, in my opinion. Probably. Maybe. The sermon "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God" makes me squeamish, and I don't believe it fairly represents the character of God, but Jonathan Edwards was involved in the Great Awakening, so who (except the Holy Spirit) knows what moves the hearts of people?
A young man I talk with is put off by the whole idea of eternal life, whether it's spent with God or apart from Him; who knows what will finally persuade him to love the Lord? Who knows what the Ethiopian Eunuch would have done if the message had been presented in a different way? What exactly led to John Loftus' apostasy? Was it truly his repugnance at the idea of eternal torment, his movement away from that into annihilationism, or something else? Why did any of us actually come to repentance? Why was it that particular day, under those particular circumstances? I don't know the answer to any of these questions.
I guess I don't object to anyone's objection to eternal torment - I object to that interpretation of scripture as well. I didn't object to the articles you posted, Todd, and am sorry if I prompted you to remove one of them. Perhaps what is off-putting, for me, is the title of this thread: "Eternal Torment: why people reject Christianity." It seems so sure that, "HERE'S the problem we have, and if we just could realize that, everyone would believe," and yet, so far in this thread, it's also been suggested that sin, pride, and correctly representing the character of God can be the stumbling block keeping some people from belief.
I believe that persuading someone to turn to God in order to escape an eternity suffering in hellfire probably doesn't produce true repentance, since it's a dearly held view of mine that fear is a lousy motivator, unless the result you want is...fear. It's an ineffective evangelistic technique, in my opinion. Probably. Maybe. The sermon "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God" makes me squeamish, and I don't believe it fairly represents the character of God, but Jonathan Edwards was involved in the Great Awakening, so who (except the Holy Spirit) knows what moves the hearts of people?
A young man I talk with is put off by the whole idea of eternal life, whether it's spent with God or apart from Him; who knows what will finally persuade him to love the Lord? Who knows what the Ethiopian Eunuch would have done if the message had been presented in a different way? What exactly led to John Loftus' apostasy? Was it truly his repugnance at the idea of eternal torment, his movement away from that into annihilationism, or something else? Why did any of us actually come to repentance? Why was it that particular day, under those particular circumstances? I don't know the answer to any of these questions.
I guess I don't object to anyone's objection to eternal torment - I object to that interpretation of scripture as well. I didn't object to the articles you posted, Todd, and am sorry if I prompted you to remove one of them. Perhaps what is off-putting, for me, is the title of this thread: "Eternal Torment: why people reject Christianity." It seems so sure that, "HERE'S the problem we have, and if we just could realize that, everyone would believe," and yet, so far in this thread, it's also been suggested that sin, pride, and correctly representing the character of God can be the stumbling block keeping some people from belief.
Re: Eternal Torment: why people reject Christianity
Michelle,Michelle wrote:Perhaps what is off-putting, for me, is the title of this thread: "Eternal Torment: why people reject Christianity." It seems so sure that, "HERE'S the problem we have, and if we just could realize that, everyone would believe," and yet, so far in this thread, it's also been suggested that sin, pride, and correctly representing the character of God can be the stumbling block keeping some people from belief.
Of course, you are correct. My intended title for the thread was, "Eternal Torment: why some people reject Christianity." Unfortunately that is too many characters for the title, so I omitted the word "some." I agree that there are other reasons. I have now renamed the thread.
Todd