I am about to begin a discussion with someone on another forum (bible.org) concerning Calvinism. I more or less like to look at what the Scriptures say but I'm certain he is gonna be using the commentaries of different commentators.
I just want to show him how ridiculous some of the things that John Calvin suggested are, hoping he will draw the conclusion that Calvin isn't worth listening to (however I know that most Calvinists are too cemented into his theology to turn from him).
I've read here and there some of John Calvin's quotes that are plain crazy. I was wondering if anyone knew a website that gave some of his quotes, or if anyone could just give me some of them from the Institutes.
It may be the lazy thing to do but I really do not want to read through his Institutes and time doesn't allow for that at the moment anyhow. Maybe someday though, just to see what all he said.
Thanks for the help,
Aaron
John Calvin Quotes??
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_AARONDISNEY
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John Calvin Quotes??
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
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I wouldn't necessarily call any of Calvin's statements "crazy," though I strongly disagree with many of them. They all made sense within the framework of his theological paradigm. In fact, Calvin wrote mainly on the kinds of things most Christians would find agreeable and insightful.
There are several areas of difference between Calvin's theology and my own, however. The most-publicized of these would be his views on predestination. I cited him at another thread in this forum, but I will cut-and-paste the same quotes here that I presented there:
“By predestination we mean the eternal decree of God by which he determined with himself whatever he wished to happen with regard to every man. All are not created on equal terms, but some are preordained to eternal life, others to eternal damnation; and, accordingly as each has been created for one or other of these ends, we say that he has been predestinated to life or to death” (John Calvin, "Institutes," 3:21:5)
“We say, then, that Scripture clearly proves this much, that God by his eternal and immutable counsel determined once for all those whom it was his pleasure one day to admit to salvation, and those whom, on the other hand, it was his pleasure to doom to destruction” (John Calvin, "Institutes," 3:21:7)
"Those therefore whom God passes by he reprobates, and that for no other cause but because he is pleased to exclude them from the inheritance which he predestines to his children." (John Calvin, "Institutes," 3:23:1)
“If what I teach is true, that those who perish are destined to death by the eternal good pleasure of God, though the reason does not appear, then they are not found but made worthy of destruction...The eternal predestination of God, by which before the fall of Adam he decreed what should take place concerning the whole human race and every individual, was fixed and determined...God chose out of the condemned race of Adam those whom he pleased and reprobated whom he willed.” (John Calvin, "The Eternal Predestination of God," 8:5)
"...how foolish and frail is the support of divine justice afforded by the suggestion that evils come to be, not by His will but by His permission...It is a quite frivolous refuge to say that God otiosely permits them, when Scripture shows Him not only willing, but the author of them...Who does not tremble at these judgments with which God works in the hearts of even the wicked whatever He will, rewarding them nonetheless according to desert? Again it is quite clear from the evidence of Scripture that God works in the hearts of men to incline their wills just as he will, whether to good for His mercy's sake, or to evil according to their merits. " (John Calvin, "The Eternal Predestination of God," 10:11)
If you would like to see the discussion that surrounded my quoting these things in the early thread, you can find it at this link:
http://www.wvss.com/forumc/viewtopic.php?t=647
There are several areas of difference between Calvin's theology and my own, however. The most-publicized of these would be his views on predestination. I cited him at another thread in this forum, but I will cut-and-paste the same quotes here that I presented there:
“By predestination we mean the eternal decree of God by which he determined with himself whatever he wished to happen with regard to every man. All are not created on equal terms, but some are preordained to eternal life, others to eternal damnation; and, accordingly as each has been created for one or other of these ends, we say that he has been predestinated to life or to death” (John Calvin, "Institutes," 3:21:5)
“We say, then, that Scripture clearly proves this much, that God by his eternal and immutable counsel determined once for all those whom it was his pleasure one day to admit to salvation, and those whom, on the other hand, it was his pleasure to doom to destruction” (John Calvin, "Institutes," 3:21:7)
"Those therefore whom God passes by he reprobates, and that for no other cause but because he is pleased to exclude them from the inheritance which he predestines to his children." (John Calvin, "Institutes," 3:23:1)
“If what I teach is true, that those who perish are destined to death by the eternal good pleasure of God, though the reason does not appear, then they are not found but made worthy of destruction...The eternal predestination of God, by which before the fall of Adam he decreed what should take place concerning the whole human race and every individual, was fixed and determined...God chose out of the condemned race of Adam those whom he pleased and reprobated whom he willed.” (John Calvin, "The Eternal Predestination of God," 8:5)
"...how foolish and frail is the support of divine justice afforded by the suggestion that evils come to be, not by His will but by His permission...It is a quite frivolous refuge to say that God otiosely permits them, when Scripture shows Him not only willing, but the author of them...Who does not tremble at these judgments with which God works in the hearts of even the wicked whatever He will, rewarding them nonetheless according to desert? Again it is quite clear from the evidence of Scripture that God works in the hearts of men to incline their wills just as he will, whether to good for His mercy's sake, or to evil according to their merits. " (John Calvin, "The Eternal Predestination of God," 10:11)
If you would like to see the discussion that surrounded my quoting these things in the early thread, you can find it at this link:
http://www.wvss.com/forumc/viewtopic.php?t=647
Last edited by FAST WebCrawler [Crawler] on Thu May 18, 2006 3:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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In Jesus,
Steve
Steve
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_AARONDISNEY
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Thanks Steve, that should be very helpful. I appreciate it, bro!
But, I gotta say, the only way the things he said aren't crazy is if you're in the Calvinistic way of thinking. To presume that God would find pleasure sending His created man to hell, for which Christ died, is utterly absurd to me.
Aaron
But, I gotta say, the only way the things he said aren't crazy is if you're in the Calvinistic way of thinking. To presume that God would find pleasure sending His created man to hell, for which Christ died, is utterly absurd to me.
Aaron
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
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Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
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Agape,
loaves
"And when he had taken the five loaves and the two fishes, he looked up to heaven, and blessed, and brake the loaves...And they did all eat, and were filled" (Mark 6:41-42)
loaves
"And when he had taken the five loaves and the two fishes, he looked up to heaven, and blessed, and brake the loaves...And they did all eat, and were filled" (Mark 6:41-42)