The Narrow Path Ministries

I have recently had a FB discussion with a young man who leans toward calvinism, and he had begun the conversation with referring to sinners being "dead" I thought I would use some of Steve's teaching (thanks Steve) concerning the Biblical teaching on "dead". (I found a list of verses in the Calvinism notes that describe the use of the word "dead" that could mean more than just dead.)

Following is a portion of the conversation -

Blackheart -
Have you considered the text's I sent previously, and how they may unpack the meaning of Ephesians 2:8, which I believe you are referring to when you stated "We are literally born dead in our sins -stillborn. "
I have found it to be illuminating to consider both the OT and NT passages on the use of the term Paul uses. Sometimes, (actually many times), the term merely means "as good as dead", or "doomed" If Paul is following the same sense of term, that actually changes the message he is delivering to the Ephesians from what I have generally been taught.
Something to consider.
Be Blessed.

Young man -
I can't remotely see that. It appears that such a line of thought is classic reductionism. In light of the other verses, it appears only to concrete, we were dead, bound to the law, as good as dead etc... Christ quickened us to life in Himself. The waters are only as muddy as we make them. The Scriptures couldn't be any clearer or consistent.

Blackheart -
Were we "dead" or "as good as dead"? You included both terms and they are not equal, are they?
Also, are we not to compare Scripture with Scripture? How is that "classic reductionism"?

My question to you all -

What in the world is he trying to do with the reference to "classic reductionism"?

Like many of us, the young man is using a term that he has heard, which sounds erudite, but upon whose meaning he has no clear grasp. I don't see how your position can be called "reductionism"—whether you are correct or incorrect. If you are incorrect, it is a different error—not "reductionism."

It does seem to be the norm that Calvinist use the word "dead" fit their own view. Any other use of the word "dead" they seem to consider impossible. What's interesting is that if you ask them how it can be that people believe for awhile (Luke 8:13) and fall away (proving they were never saved) if they are in fact "dead", they can't seem to find a reasonable answer. They seem to believe two contradictory things to be true at the same time. That: the "dead" can not believe without God giving them the faith to do so, and the "dead" can believe for awhile without God helping them.

I love this and only hope I can remember to use it next time the subject comes up.