If God has given you to the Son, you will come to the Son and forever be
His.
John 6:37 (ESV)
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.
If God has given you to the Son
If God has given you to the Son
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
Romans 8:29 (ESV)
For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
Re: If God has given you to the Son
Actually it says "whoever comes to me I will never cast out."Jude wrote:If God has given you to the Son, you will come to the Son and forever be
His.
John 6:37 (ESV)
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.
What happends if you stop coming ot Him? Do those that don't come to Him have eternal life too? It just seems like a conditional statement.
"Give us this day our daily bread". We need to come to Him daily.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another. (John 13:35)
They "will come"
The "will come" part is pretty definite.
Jude
Jude
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
Romans 8:29 (ESV)
For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
Re: They "will come"
Yes but the sentance is in two parts. Besides, this is speaking about those that already belong to God (the remnant) coming to Jesus. Are you sure this specific statement hasn't been fulfilled?Jude wrote:The "will come" part is pretty definite.
Jude
John 17:10 And all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine, and I am glorified in them. 11 Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are. 12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another. (John 13:35)
they will come
Those whom the Father gives to Jesus will come to Jesus, and they come by process of coming. John 6:37
Jude
Jude
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
Romans 8:29 (ESV)
For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
I guess I still don't see the point your trying to make. I mean, I think I know what you want this to say. I just don't see how it proves a reformed view.
Now, if you could find a verse that said: "God unconditionally chose who would go to the lake of fire and who would be saved, then regenerated the "faithless elect" while they were still unbelievers causing them to believe without any other choice or ability to resist."
But if that were true, it would seem to contradict:
"God resists the proud, But gives grace to the humble."
Aren't all unbelievers proud? How do they get humble?
"The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel."
"In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory. "
Are we "sealed" before or after we believe?
"among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others."
Why were we "objects of wrath" if we are elect? How could our position change if it was set by God before the foundation of the world?
"But then, indeed, when you did not know God, you served those which by nature are not gods. But now after you have known God, or rather are known by God, how is it that you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements, to which you desire again to be in bondage?"
How was it that there was a time when we were not "known" by God? How is it that at some point the elect become "known" by God? Didn't God "foreknow" us to be elect? Or were we "known" by God before salvation? Were we "known" as objects of wrath before salvation? How could the elect be objects of wrath?
"Luke 14:28 For which of you, intending to build a tower, does not sit down first and count the cost, whether he has enough to finish it-- 29 lest, after he has laid the foundation, and is not able to finish, all who see it begin to mock him, 30 saying, "This man began to build and was not able to finish.' 31 Or what king, going to make war against another king, does not sit down first and consider whether he is able with ten thousand to meet him who comes against him with twenty thousand? 32 Or else, while the other is still a great way off, he sends a delegation and asks conditions of peace. 33 So likewise, whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple. "
You mean someone can decide weather or not to be a disciple?
Just some things to consider. Jude, I do enjoy your posts. Keep posting.
Now, if you could find a verse that said: "God unconditionally chose who would go to the lake of fire and who would be saved, then regenerated the "faithless elect" while they were still unbelievers causing them to believe without any other choice or ability to resist."
But if that were true, it would seem to contradict:
"God resists the proud, But gives grace to the humble."
Aren't all unbelievers proud? How do they get humble?
"The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel."
"In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory. "
Are we "sealed" before or after we believe?
"among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others."
Why were we "objects of wrath" if we are elect? How could our position change if it was set by God before the foundation of the world?
"But then, indeed, when you did not know God, you served those which by nature are not gods. But now after you have known God, or rather are known by God, how is it that you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements, to which you desire again to be in bondage?"
How was it that there was a time when we were not "known" by God? How is it that at some point the elect become "known" by God? Didn't God "foreknow" us to be elect? Or were we "known" by God before salvation? Were we "known" as objects of wrath before salvation? How could the elect be objects of wrath?
"Luke 14:28 For which of you, intending to build a tower, does not sit down first and count the cost, whether he has enough to finish it-- 29 lest, after he has laid the foundation, and is not able to finish, all who see it begin to mock him, 30 saying, "This man began to build and was not able to finish.' 31 Or what king, going to make war against another king, does not sit down first and consider whether he is able with ten thousand to meet him who comes against him with twenty thousand? 32 Or else, while the other is still a great way off, he sends a delegation and asks conditions of peace. 33 So likewise, whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple. "
You mean someone can decide weather or not to be a disciple?
Just some things to consider. Jude, I do enjoy your posts. Keep posting.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another. (John 13:35)