The Narrow Path Ministries

I’m sorry if this has already been suggested somewhere else on the form, but this seems to make the most sense to me.

Could it be that the detractor of Rom 9/19,20 does not understand Paul to be talking about hardening people to hell but…God hardening Israel as a whole.

Rom 11/25 says that Israel has experienced a hardening. (and yes this comes much later in the book, but it would seem that Paul would have wanted to qualify this statement in 11/25, and that could be partly the reason for the discussion in ch 9.)

I would say they may not have been hardened any more than any other nation of the world. I say this because they were the only nation that God dwelled with. The only one entrusted with his word. The only one with Gods true religion. They were the ones with the most light by far...while the other nations were left in the dark...to be hardened.

In other words, they were still some what soft, while the other nations had already experienced a hardening.

They were the one nation least handed over to their sin because of God's direct work with them to keep them from their sin. This could not be said of the other nations (Rom 1/24).(Of course, God later handed them over too…but that’s what Paul is ultimately explaining in this chapter)

In a nut shell, verse 6 of chapter 9 says : “not all who are descended from Israel are Israel"

Some descendents were chosen to be left outside Gods earthly kingdom of spiritual light like the descendants of Esau, and the Egyptians when God hardened Pharaoh, not giving Israel the light of the law while they were living with the Egyptians. God left the people of Egypt behind in the dark.

So, verse 6 shows us that what follows is to explain about what has happened to Israel...despite their great standing with God. Paul talks about the hardening of Pharaoh, and then the question is...(if God is hardening us) "why does God blame US?"

(And God did blame Israel...and Jesus told them that they would be judged by the Romans (70 ad). Paul may realize that the questioner may also have this in mind.)

I think the person asking the question is asking: why has God now hardened us, why is God treating us like all the gentiles? If he is doing this, why does he blame us if it is his sovereign will that we be left aside like Esau’s descendents through our hardening?

And now that God has finished with his old covenant with Israel they have been left to be totally hardened.

In other words...again, the person is asking why the NATION of Israel has been hardened, not even thinking about God hardening individuals to go to hell.


Paul then says in verse 1 of ch 11. Did God then reject his people? By no means! I myself am a Israelite. In other words, the nation has not been dammed to hell either...I am a Israelite and a Christian.

Over all, by looking at the context, we can see that this discussion is about God rejecting a natural nation as his chosen vessel, not individual people (because Paul testifies that he was not rejected and he is from that very nation).

So Paul explains that the noble vessel that was Israel has now been (hardened) and turned into a vessel of common use. He explains that natural Israel has been left in the dark with all other nations and spiritual Israel is the only vessel of noble use. And, like it says in 2 Tim we can choose which vessel we want to be in.

It is important to point out that it had just become official (in the first century) that spiritual Israel was the ONLY vessel of noble use, because before Jesus came, God was still using natural Israel as a noble vessel (as corrupt as it had become). But this whole time, there really was only one true Isreal.

Greetings Jason,

This is a really good study you have here! (It motivated me to dig-in and reexamine this "objector" fellow again). So far, all I've done is re-read Exodus...except the building the tabernacle parts. I've heard Steve's Romans 9 lectures, agree what he says in them, and BBL if I find anything new to add. Unfortunately, perhaps, this "objector" guy isn't all that easily explained in just a few words...Thought-provoking, thanks, !

Hi Jason,

I believe you are correct. Thanks for presenting this viewpoint.

Also, (and this may be totally obvious to all of you) with this understanding the following verses have become totally understandable to me.

I used to think that verses 22- 25 were simply continuing to talk about different vessels or pots because they are called "objects of wrath" and "objects of mercy"

But, I now think that Paul talks about nations up until verse 22, and then from 22 and on he is talking about individuals.

It is true that you could call a pot an object, but it also makes sense to call someone the object of love and the fact that he changes language makes this very possible.

He changes his language about the vessels (vessels of honor/ vessels of common use) to the language of wrath and mercy now having to do with specific “objects"

We are objects of Gods love, and some are objects of his wrath, this seems like a very normal way to talk about individuals.

In other words...there are objects within the vessels, individuals within nations.

But someone will say...HEY! Which is it!! Nations or individuals!??!?

Well, that is where my last post comes into play. I believe Paul begins to make a finer point and it is to show why God has dealt with Israel as he has and it has to do with individuals.

God used Israel as a vessel of noble use...even though he had to bare with great patience the objects (individuals) of his wrath that were ready for destruction...in order to show mercy for the objects (individuals) of his mercy within that same nation or vessel if you will . He could have taken them out right when Jesus died on the cross, but it seems that he had a few more things to do with HIS people there. Not only do I think this is true about him not destroying Israel (or having mercy on them physically) but allowing certain people to know God through the old covenant (before Christ) and for other people to know Christ before the appointed day of destruction.

Just reading theses verses now remind me of God not destroying Sodom because he had his man there. Remember, he bore with patience a whole city that was the object of his wrath in order to show mercy on the object of his mercy (Lot)…Paul even brings this up a few verses later when he quotes Isaiah: vs 29 “… Unless the lord all mighty had left us descendents, we would have become like Sodom…”

Even here Paul shows us again with the verse he quotes that the scope of the discussion is about the nation of Israel and how he has dealt with (molded and not destroyed) that nation until he was finished with it as a vessel for noble use.