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Galatians 15-16
Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:27 am
by _darin-houston
I can't seem to find any decent non-Calvinist commentary explaining Galatians 15-16. Does anyone have a good discourse on how Paul might have meant this?
15 But when God, who had set me apart even from my mother’s womb and called me through His grace, was pleased 16 to reveal His Son in me so that I might preach Him among the Gentiles.
My initial reaction is that the only answer to the Calvinist is that Paul is a unique situation and not everyone has a Damascus road intervention.
Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 10:26 am
by _SoaringEagle
I think there are many factors to this, and it is more complex than what the Calvinist would present. The same goes for Jeremiah. First, if God has a plan, then He is going to do what He can to bring it to pass. Some things God has purposed can't not come to pass. Other things that involve the co-operation of man may not be a sure thing. As for Paul and Jeremiah, God had great potential plans for them; such plans that He doesn't reserve for everyone. That's why you see Him more sovereignly working in their unbelieving days when reading about them. Calvinist's see this, and wrongly universalize this and concludes that this is how God always works to save. I mean, it does appear that Paul and Jeremiah had God working in a more powerful, supernatural, sovereign way to save them. This is an evidence of grace, but one reason for this is because of His plans for them. Why does anyone get saved? Because of God's grace and influence in there life. Some people get more grace because of various reasons. A wife that converted who prays faithfully for their husband's salvation. A believing neighbor or co-worker that prays for them, loves them, and expresses Christ towards them. A past boy or girlfriend who converted and has been moved to pray persistently. These are all factors God takes into consideration in dealing with the heart of a wicked man or woman. Next, you've got God's own nature to consider when thinking on how He deals with someone. We as bible believers (non-calvinists) know that if God had to choose as to what He'd rather do with the lost, He'd prefer to bestow mercy over jugdment everytime. Yet because of His sovereign choice, one must come to Him in faith to receive and enter into His love and mercy for them and be forgiven. Reconciliation is both relational and conditional. Since God is infathomably Holy, having righteousness of the foundation of His throne, He wont be patient with them forever. His hopes for reconciliation with them can be discarded by His choice. As for Paul, he went around persecuting the church. These same people however, were taught by Jesus to love and pray for those who are your enemies and persecute you. Look at all the Christians Paul harmed before His damascas road experience, and all the Christians who heard about it, and you'll see the great multitudes who were praying for Paul's salvation. And evidence of more grace and influence of the Spirit toward Paul. Such grace and influence that might not have existed if the Christians were disobedient in following Jesus teachings to pray for Paul. Finally, Paul and Jeremiah still could have resisted God's plan for their lives. "Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision" (Act 26:19) Also look at how the Pharisees responded to some of the miraculous things that were done in their midst, and look at Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet. (2 Pet. 2:15-16) This shows us that it is still possible for some to resist God's more sovereign grace and influence, though the chances are small. The more grace, the more likely of the success of the work of God to bring man to repentance and faith. Having said all of that, I'm blown away by that God would want to save any as wicked as humanity is. If he chose not to ever save anyone, He'd still be just. Let us marvel at the goodness and loving kindness of our great God and Savior.
Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 11:14 am
by _PAULESPINO
I would like to give my opinion.
My initial reaction is that the only answer to the Calvinist is that Paul is a unique situation and not everyone has a Damascus road intervention.
I believe that not only Paul has a unique situation but each one of us has a unique situation and God reveal his son to us in different ways but for Paul it was the road to Damascus. God revealed his Son to me through other people who shared the gospel of Christ and for me this was my Damascus. Just like Paul I knew about the story of Jesus before but I don't have a relationship with Him now I do just like Paul.
Starting from 1:11, Paul was talking about himself only. He is telling the Galatians about the authenticity of his apostleship. He did not say that only Christians were set apart or sanctified. The purpose of Paul's letter from 1:11-24 is to show to Galatians that he is not a fraud and he did this by telling them his character before he became a christian. He said that he was advancing in judaism beyond others which could also mean that he was a recognize jew. He would kill people to protect and preserve the traditions of judaism. The reason he told the Galatians his past character is because he wants to show them that it is impossible for him to preach the gospel and become a christian unless a true miracle from God happened.
And a miracle happened on his way to Damascus therefore he is not a fraud.
In Is. 49:1, 5; Jer. 1:5 the same language was used by the authors
(The Lord has called Me from the womb; From the 1matrix of My mother He has made mention of My name) Paul is not the only one who was called from his mother's womb but every individual was called from their mother's womb to be or predestined ( appointed) to do a special task. Maybe others are called to become a doctor, teacher, bible teacher, preacher, janitor, taxi driver and so on. Whatever our calling is we all have something in common and that is to share the gospel of Christ.
Note: 3 events happened in this verse (who separated me from my mother’s womb and called me through His grace, 16 to reveal His Son in me) First he was sanctified by God and then right after the sanctification he was called through God's grace and these 2 events happened simultaneously. It happened simultaneously because it uses the conjunction "and". The revelation of his Son ( Jesus) can happen in the later date of our life just like with Paul.
Conclusion: We were all sanctified from our mother's womb and called through his grace from the time we were conceived and Jesus can reveal himself to us anytime within our lifetime .
Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 11:38 am
by _TK
does paul's statement have to be taken literally? just asking-- don't yell at me!
TK
Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:21 pm
by _SoaringEagle
That's a good question TK. I think so. John the Baptist is said to have been filled with the Holy Spirit in his mothers womb. I'm inclined to take that literally. What about you?
Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:35 pm
by _TK
They might be distinguishable-- being filled with the HS while in the womb is an overt action by God-- this is what "set apart" John the B.
When Paul says he was set apart from his mother's womb, perhaps this is only a manner of speaking. How did he know that God set him apart from his mother's womb? Perhaps, looking at how his life did a 180 deg turn, (from christian-hater to super-apostle) he could only conclude that God had a special purpose for his life(which He obviously did).
It's kind of like saying "I was destined for this."
pehaps God does a plan for each of our lives (even before we were born). however, we dont have to stick to the plan. Paul didn't- he went way off course and God had to correct his path (via damascas). paul wasn't disobedient to the heavenly vision, although presumably he could have been if he wanted to.
this is an interesting question- i have never really thought about it before.
TK
Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:36 pm
by _PAULESPINO
does paul's statement have to be taken literally? just asking-- don't yell at me!
I don't see any indications in the bible as to why we can not take the verse literally after we are all created according to the image of God and therefore would make sense for God to sanctify us acoording to his purpose.
Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 3:26 pm
by _PAULESPINO
Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 3:29 pm
by _TK
i was just kidding around, Paul. i know i am suggesting something a little unpopular.
TK
Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 3:31 pm
by _PAULESPINO
TK and Soaringeagle
They might be distinguishable-- being filled with the HS while in the womb is an overt action by God-- this is what "set apart" John the B.
When Paul says he was set apart from his mother's womb, perhaps this is only a manner of speaking. How did he know that God set him apart from his mother's womb? Perhaps, looking at how his life did a 180 deg turn, (from christian-hater to super-apostle) he could only conclude that God had a special purpose for his life(which He obviously did).
I would say that this is another view that will perfectly harmonize in other passages.