The Narrow Path Ministries

2 Timothy 2:3-6. “For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.”

Of the proof texts cited thus far for a universal atonement, this passage is considered to be the strongest in favor of their doctrine. However, before jumping to conclusions one should first examine the Greek text, the immediate context, and the theological context (or the analogy of Scripture). There are many reasons why this passage should not be construed to mean that Christ died for every individual who ever lived.

Note, first, that the context favors translating the Greek word all (pas) as all kinds of men. In 1 Timothy 2:1 Paul says “that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men, for kings and all who are in authority.” Paul means that we are to pray for all kinds of people, or all sorts of people—including the civil authorities. Paul’s use of all in verse one cannot mean all men that have ever existed, or who exist presently, or who shall exist in the future. Are Christians supposed to pray for the millions of people who are dead and burning in hell? Furthermore, the myriads of people in heaven certainly are in no need of our prayers. In John chapter 17 Jesus refused to pray for all men: “I pray for them. I do not pray for the world” (v. 9). The apostle John says specifically that believers are not to pray for those who have committed the sin leading to death (cf. 1 Jn. 5:16). Paul also tells believers to give thanksgiving for all men. Are Christians supposed to give thanks for the persecuting Nero, Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin, Chairman Mao, Charles Manson, child molesters, etc.? Of course not! Christians are to pray for all types of men: “that is, for men of the highest, as well as the lowest rank and quality.”90

But does the Greek language permit one to translate or interpret “all men” as “all kinds of men“? Yes; in fact, there are many instances in the New Testament in which pas is translated as “all kinds of” or “all manner of” (e.g., Mt. 4:23; 5:11; 10:1; Lk. 11:42; Ac. 10:12; Rom. 7:8; Rev. 21:19). Custance writes: “Every lexicon of New Testament Greek and of Classical Greek agrees upon the validity of the expanded translation. Thayer, for example, gives a number of references by way of illustration and adds this comment: ‘So especially with nouns designating virtues or vices, customs, characters, conditions, etc.’ On numerous occasions it greatly illuminates the text to convert the simple ‘all’ (whether things or men) into ‘all kinds of’ or some such alternative.”91 Therefore, if the context and many other clear doctrines and passages point in the direction of the expanded meaning of all (i.e., “all kinds of“), then one is justified in preferring such an interpretation.

Although the Greek language permits, and the immediate context favors, the view that Paul is speaking of all kinds of men, the greatest reason one should favor the interpretation above is that it best fits with the many clear passages which discuss Christ’s death and God’s will. The salvation spoken of in this passage is not a mere possibility of salvation, or an offer of salvation, or an arrangement set up by God in which men can save themselves. Paul is speaking of a real, certain and actual salvation. When Paul says that it is God’s will, or desire, that all men are to be saved, he is not speaking of a will conditioned by man’s response. Such would clearly contradict Scripture: “it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy” (Rom. 9:16; cf. Jn. 1:13). God’s will regarding “the salvation of men is absolute and unconditional, and what infallibly secures and produces it”92 (cf. Rom. 9:11; Eph. 1:4, 5, 11; 2:10). If it was God’s will that all men without exception should be saved, then all men would go to heaven. This passage would teach a universal salvation. Paul says, “Who has resisted His will” (Rom 9:19)? God’s word declares: “He does according to His will in the army of heaven and among the inhabitants of the earth” (Dan. 4:35).

Does the Bible teach that it is God’s desire to save all men? No, not at all. God did not choose or elect all men to eternal life. He only chose some; the rest are hardened (Rom. 9:18). These are vessels of wrath prepared for destruction (2 Th. 2:11-12; 1 Pet. 2:8-9; Pr. 16:4; 1 Th. 5:9). God is infinite in power, knowledge and wisdom. If God really was trying to save every individual throughout history, then why did He restrict His special revelation to a tiny nation in Palestine under the Old Covenant? Why did God forbid Paul, Timothy, and Silas to preach the gospel in Asia (Ac. 16:6)? Why does the Bible repeatedly say that God hides the truth from many people (Mt. 11:25; Isa. 6:9-10)? Why did Jesus Christ not pray and intercede for all men, but only for some (Jn. 17:9)? In Acts 9, Jesus Christ appears to Paul and turns a zealous persecutor of Christians into the greatest evangelist the world has ever known. Why doesn’t God raise up thousands of apostle Pauls to spread the gospel throughout the earth? God certainly has the power to do so. But He does not. Regeneration is a sovereign act of God, yet God refuses to regenerate all men. Faith and repentance are gifts of God, yet God only grants these gifts to some and not others. The Bible clearly teaches that God is not trying to save all men. What it does teach is that He will save some people out of every nation before Christ returns (Rev. 5:9).

By Brian Schwertley

I thought I'd bump this up to see if anyone has something to say in response to this. As of yet, there are none that has done so.

Anybody?

Does the Bible teach that it is God’s desire to save all men? No, not at all.

The following verse clearly contradicts the idea that God does not desire to save all people:

The Lord is not slow about his promise as some count slowness, but is forbearing toward you, not desiring that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance. 2 Peter 3:9

Ohhh it is painful to watch the Calvinistic mind try to avoid the obvious!! If is wasn't such a serious subject it would almost be funny, however, distorting Gods word to fit your incorrect theological construct is no laughing matter.

This post is nothing more than a rehashing of John Owens distorted teaching on the text. It is soo bad, where does one begin.

First of all the Greek word [pas] appears over some 1200 times in the NT. Here as in MOST of the texts it means "All" "whole" "whoever" "all possible". So what say a Calvinist in response to Romans 3:23 where it says "all" [pas] have sinned!!? Does the Calvinist say that only "all kinds of men have sinned"? Not all [pas] have sinned? Only "some kinds of men" have sinned? You will never see them distort the text that says all [pas] have sinned! Yet, using their logic you could say that only "some kinds of men" have sinned using Rom 3:23 as a text! Or possibly this would say that only the Calvinist have sinned, therefore everyone else is perfect-- OK that was bad humor, but think about it. And, of course, what about 1Timothy 2:2 (same book, same context) where it says "so that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all [pas] godliness and reverence". Using the same logic of the Calvinist here are we to only use "some kinds of" or "part" godliness and reverence? Well, obviously not, we are to be peaceable in "all" [pas] godliness.

In 1st Timothy, all means all, and that is all that it means. One mediator for "all" men because all men have sinned. Salvation is offered to all, but only applied to those who reveive Christ (John 1:12).

Furthermore, if the Holy Spirit had intended to say "all sorts of men" do you not think He could have said it? Or could the all powerful Holy Spirit not have said "some kinds men" if that is what the text was to communicate? The immediate context rules here. The only reason to jump all over the place is to try and distract the meaning of the obvious because there is no room for an all loving God to fit in the theological box you have for Him. Simply read it in context of 1 Timothy as a whole (c.f 4:10). And by the way the passage sited in the original post is incorrect, it is 1 Timothy not 2nd Timothy.

Well, much more could be said about this posts distorted logic, but I have to go. Maybe I will comment more later.

But I do have to say in the time I have been dealing with Calvinism it is almost like talking with a cultist. I am not trying to be demeaning, that is just what it reminds me of, as they try and bounce all over the place to avoid the obvious also.

The simple rule-"if the plain sense makes sense, seek no other sense, unless you make nonsense"

P.S. it is also ridiculous to say that the text in question could be universalistic. This is obviously not the case. But it does seem to be a fear of the Calvinistic mindset. Am I too black and white

Yet a second P.S. The post in question at the last paragraph says-- "Does the Bible teach that it is God’s desire to save all men? No, not at all."
For now, all I have to say about that quote is WOW! That could not be more inacurate. I am going to comment on that tomorrow. Bedtime now. For now I will just walk away and shake my head.


In Jesus, Greg

Troy,

The simple rule-"if the plain sense makes sense, seek no other sense unless you make nonsense"

I might just use this as a rule of thumb.

Are Christians supposed to pray for the millions of people who are dead and burning in hell? Furthermore, the myriads of people in heaven certainly are in no need of our prayers. In John chapter 17 Jesus refused to pray for all men: “I pray for them. I do not pray for the world” (v. 9).

I think these questions are horrible attempts to challenge the view that God does indeed desire all to be saved. If he doesn't, then what are we to make of one of the most classic, well known sunday school hymns that goes "Jesus loves the little children, all the children of the world. Red and yellow black and white, they are precious in His sight, Jesus loves the little children of the world?"!? As for the question "Are Christians supposed to pray for the millions of people who are dead and burning in hell" and the statement that follows from this"Furthermore, the myriads of people in heaven certainly are in no need of our prayers"

I will say this:

This monuver will only work if those in heaven and in hell during the intermediate state are referred to as men. I/one will have to do a word search to be 100% conclusive, but I know that those in heaven during the intermediate state are referred to as souls. If those in heaven or hell before the resurrection of the dead and eternal judgment were referred to as "men", the Calvinst might have a case. However, supposing that this was the case for the sake of argument, that case is far from compelling to me. What's more, is the subject of those in the intermediate state is no doubt entirely irrelevent. The very fact that Paul mentions kings and all who are in authority restricts his prayer to those presently on earth for those who comply and begin to pray for all men.

As for John 17:9, I believe this is special pleading. Jesus clearly prayed for those who were not believers. "For give them Father, for they know not what they do". This devastes the claim that Jesus "ONLY" prayed for believers. Are we to assume that God answered the prayer and forgave all of those whom he had in mind when he prayed?

But I do have to say in the time I have been dealing with Calvinism it is almost like talking with a cultist

I have to agree. There is a spirit behind this doctrine, and it is surely a seducing spirit and the result is doctrines of devils.