Regeneration?

_Sean
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Post by _Sean » Tue Oct 25, 2005 7:16 am

Homer wrote: I once believed "the born again" could go for a day or days without sinning, but I no longer believe this is true. Sin is "missing the mark", the mark God sets for us, not the one we set. Who among us can say they know exactly what God's will is for us at every particular moment? Remember, sins of ignorance are still sins.
So God has a path for us, doesn't tell us, and when we fail at something we didn't even know we were suppose to do that it's considered sin? Then how do we repent? If I believed that I would always feel like I was under condemnation, even though I didn't know what to do about it.

I don't quite understand.
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_Homer
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Post by _Homer » Tue Oct 25, 2005 9:42 am

I will try to explain. There is a difference between being a sinner, which I believe we all are, and practicing sin, or choosing sin, as a way of life. I may be wrong on this, but I believe that my choice of what I will do today, although not sinful in itself, may be sin because God might desire that I do something else - help someone, visit someone, witness to someone, etc. We may thoughtlessly say something we should not say (gossip) and not even realize what we have done. We may hear of a battle with terrorists where, as was recently in the news, many of them were killed by a bomb where they had gathered in a building. Can we say our thoughts would be Jesus thoughts when we heard of it? I'm sure mine weren't until I caught myself. What of the attractive woman (or man), perhaps inappropriately dressed, that we see? Do we avert our eyes immediately? How much of a look is sinful?

On the other hand, I emphatically deny that we are slaves of sin; there is always provided a way out. Yet we are weak and also not always attentive to what we are doing, we "fall asleep at the wheel".

"For we all stumble in many ways". My only hope when I stand before God will be that Jesus died for me.
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_Homer
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Post by _Homer » Tue Oct 25, 2005 9:58 am

Sean,

I might add that I do not believe that John, when he spoke of confessing our sins in 1 John 1:9, meant we must enumerate every sin to be forgiven. Compare verse 10 with the tax collector's plea in Luke 18:13, who confessed what he was rather than what he had done yet went home justified.

Psalm 19:12 (NIV) "Who can discern his errors? Forgive my hidden faults (sins)". That pretty much sums up my thoughts. If I'm in error, please correct me.

In Christ, Homer
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_IlovetheLord
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Post by _IlovetheLord » Tue Oct 25, 2005 10:07 am

Homer wrote:Sean,

I might add that I do not believe that John, when he spoke of confessing our sins in 1 John 1:9, meant we must enumerate every sin to be forgiven. Compare verse 10 with the tax collector's plea in Luke 18:13, who confessed what he was rather than what he had done yet went home justified.

Psalm 19:12 (NIV) "Who can discern his errors? Forgive my hidden faults (sins)". That pretty much sums up my thoughts. If I'm in error, please correct me.

In Christ, Homer
Agreed. I don't think that is the case either.
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_Paidion
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Post by _Paidion » Tue Oct 25, 2005 10:09 am

In Numbers 15 we find that under the Law, a person would be forgiven of unintentional sin by means of a sin offering. Naturally, this could not be done until he was aware of his sin. The willful sinner who broke the Sabbath was not forgiven but stoned. It would seem there is a similar principle applied in the New Covenant. Are not the Christian's sins of ignorance covered by our sacrifice, Jesus, even while the person is unaware of them? And Hebrews 10:26, "If we keep on willfully sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left". The different treatment of sins seems to be maintained in the New Covenant. God does not change.
It appears that now, under the new covenant, there is a dramatic change in God's dealing with sins:

Acts 17:30 The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent...

Romans 3:24-27 ... they are made righteous by his grace as a gift, through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as a means of mercy by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God’s righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins [under the first covenant] it was to prove at the present time that he himself is righteous and that he makes righteous him who has faith in Jesus. Then what becomes of our boasting?
It is excluded.

I once believed "the born again" could go for a day or days without sinning, but I no longer believe this is true.
And I once believed that a regenerated persons could not go for one minute without sinning. Now I believe that they can. If it is possible for them to go for a single minute without sin, then why not two minutes?
How about three minutes? Five minutes? An hour? If they can go for an hour, why not five hours? Why not a day? A week? A month?

Jesus did not die to forgive us for past sins, but to deliver us from our present live sins. If none of us are delivered, then He died in vain!

I Corinthians 6:9-11 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor sexual perverts, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you [not "such are some of you"]. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were made righteous in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.
Sin is "missing the mark", the mark God sets for us, not the one we set.


Yes, the primary meaning of the Greek word "hamartia" is "missing the mark". Yet the New Testaments is full of texts containing "hamartia" where deliberate sin is meant.
Who among us can say they know exactly what God's will is for us at every particular moment? Remember, sins of ignorance are still sins.
None of us is yet perfected (completed) as children of God. So our deliverance from sin is not yet complete. Yet, "He who began a good work in your will bring it to completion in the day of Jesus Christ". So as long as the process of deliverance from sin continues in our lives; as long as we co-operate with the enabling grace of God, made possible through the death and resurrection of Jesus, then God will regard us as righteous persons now. But if we believe that it is impossible to live our lives without sin, then we have given up. In such a case, we may not be on the road to perfection. We ought to be concerned. For Jesus said:

"Not every one who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Matthew 7:21
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_Homer
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Post by _Homer » Tue Oct 25, 2005 4:28 pm

Paidion,

I can't say I disagree much with what you said. You are correct, not one of us has reached perfection in this life. We will never reach the end of that road on this life, yet we must stay on it.

I see harmatia, sin, as a term that includes all categories of sin. Unintentional sin, wickedness, and iniquity differ yet all are a "missing the mark".
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Post by _Anonymous » Tue Oct 25, 2005 4:49 pm

You have a very nice avatar ILoveTheLord. :wink: I used to be a huge fan of dragonball Z them about 5 years ago when I was just entering High School.
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_Sean
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Post by _Sean » Sat Oct 29, 2005 11:10 pm

Homer wrote:Sean,

I might add that I do not believe that John, when he spoke of confessing our sins in 1 John 1:9, meant we must enumerate every sin to be forgiven. Compare verse 10 with the tax collector's plea in Luke 18:13, who confessed what he was rather than what he had done yet went home justified.

Psalm 19:12 (NIV) "Who can discern his errors? Forgive my hidden faults (sins)". That pretty much sums up my thoughts. If I'm in error, please correct me.

In Christ, Homer
I agree and didn't mean that we have to enumerate all our sins. I was thinking more of 1 John 1:9. But at the same time, don't we have the Holy Spirit in us who convicts us when we do sin? Isn't the point of this to grow, become more sensitive and prevent a specific future sin. As we grow in this, there are more and more sins we didn't realize were that bad until we are convicted of them. We repent and learn not to repeat the offence. So our total tally of sins should decrease over our maturity.

Also, Paul said that if we walk in the Spirit we will not fulfill the lust of the flesh. Sure, we don't always walk in the Spirit but I believe Paul is saying that we can and should. I don't think our focus should be on not sinning, but on walking in the Spirit.
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_Homer
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Post by _Homer » Sun Oct 30, 2005 5:05 pm

Sean,

I agree with you completely.

Blesings, Homer
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