2 Thess. 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren, beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth.
Doesn't this say we were chosen for salvation?
Also, doesn't this give a case that those God chosen was according to faith, or faith in the truth?
SoaringEagle
chosen for salvation?
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chosen for salvation?
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
It is a good Calvinist proof text. If the rest of the Bible supported Calvinism, I would be inclined to see it as supporting this doctrine as well.
Since the bulk of scripture is so hostile toward the Calvinist distinctives (see discussions in this forum for details), I am inclined to seek a meaning that is in harmony with the teaching of scripture, and of Paul, elsewhere.
More than one possibility suggests itself to my mind.
Arminians usually teach that God chose individuals for salvation before the foundation of the world, based on His knowledge-in-advance that they would someday choose to believe in Christ. An Arminian can easily suggest that this element of divine foreknowledge provides the basis for the choosing mentioned in this verse, and accept its statements at face value.
Other non-Calvinists see election as corporate; that is, God only elects to save a category—viz., "all who are found in Christ"—whoever they may turn out to be. The individual's decision to be in that category is his or her own. Such a person can see Paul's remark as addressed to the church in Thessalonica as a segment of the whole, world-wide church in Christ, which was chosen in Him before the foundation of the world (Eph.1:4). The Church in Christ (as a category) is a chosen entity, but the individual participants in it were not specially selected by God. The verse in question can be read through this lens without great difficulty.
An inductive approach to the verse would ask the following questions:
1. Who is being addressed? (A. Thessalonian Christians)
2. What is the most basic thing that the verse says about them? (A. God chose them)
3. When did God choose them (A. "from the beginning")
4. What did He chose them for? (A. Salvation)
5. Is any detail given about this salvation? (A. It is realized by the sanctifying work of the Spirit and the faith of the believers)
This is the data of the verse. Even so, it can be put together theologically in more than one way, depending upon one's theological presuppositions. My presuppositions are non-Calvinistic, so I favor a non-Calvinistic option.
In the immediately preceding context, Paul has been talking about those who will be deceived by the man of sin, and will perish in God's judgment at the end of the church era. In our present verse, he contrasts such people with his readers, in the following ways—
a. Those discussed in the earlier verses will be living at the end of the church era (vv.1-12); whereas, Paul's readers live at "the beginning" of that era;
b. Those in the previous verses "believe the lie," and "did not believe the truth,"(vv.11-12); whereas Paul's readers are characterized by "belief in the truth;"
c. God will choose to cause the first group to "be condemned," because of their rejection of the truth(vv.10-12); whereas God chose to save Paul's readers because of ["through"] their belief in the truth;
As near as I can tell (at this point of my limited knowledge) the verse may simply be saying that the readers have been privileged to be among the first people (in contrast to the generations that would follow in their train) that God has chosen to save. This salvation was not without warrant or agent. It was warranted by their belief in the truth, and accomplished by the sanctifying Holy Spirit.
Obviously, I can see more than one possible option in interpreting this verse. Each of them is as valid as the Calvinist option—and more valid, since the Calvinist interpretation would pit this verse against most of scripture. I think that Paul would not appreciate that.
Since the bulk of scripture is so hostile toward the Calvinist distinctives (see discussions in this forum for details), I am inclined to seek a meaning that is in harmony with the teaching of scripture, and of Paul, elsewhere.
More than one possibility suggests itself to my mind.
Arminians usually teach that God chose individuals for salvation before the foundation of the world, based on His knowledge-in-advance that they would someday choose to believe in Christ. An Arminian can easily suggest that this element of divine foreknowledge provides the basis for the choosing mentioned in this verse, and accept its statements at face value.
Other non-Calvinists see election as corporate; that is, God only elects to save a category—viz., "all who are found in Christ"—whoever they may turn out to be. The individual's decision to be in that category is his or her own. Such a person can see Paul's remark as addressed to the church in Thessalonica as a segment of the whole, world-wide church in Christ, which was chosen in Him before the foundation of the world (Eph.1:4). The Church in Christ (as a category) is a chosen entity, but the individual participants in it were not specially selected by God. The verse in question can be read through this lens without great difficulty.
An inductive approach to the verse would ask the following questions:
1. Who is being addressed? (A. Thessalonian Christians)
2. What is the most basic thing that the verse says about them? (A. God chose them)
3. When did God choose them (A. "from the beginning")
4. What did He chose them for? (A. Salvation)
5. Is any detail given about this salvation? (A. It is realized by the sanctifying work of the Spirit and the faith of the believers)
This is the data of the verse. Even so, it can be put together theologically in more than one way, depending upon one's theological presuppositions. My presuppositions are non-Calvinistic, so I favor a non-Calvinistic option.
In the immediately preceding context, Paul has been talking about those who will be deceived by the man of sin, and will perish in God's judgment at the end of the church era. In our present verse, he contrasts such people with his readers, in the following ways—
a. Those discussed in the earlier verses will be living at the end of the church era (vv.1-12); whereas, Paul's readers live at "the beginning" of that era;
b. Those in the previous verses "believe the lie," and "did not believe the truth,"(vv.11-12); whereas Paul's readers are characterized by "belief in the truth;"
c. God will choose to cause the first group to "be condemned," because of their rejection of the truth(vv.10-12); whereas God chose to save Paul's readers because of ["through"] their belief in the truth;
As near as I can tell (at this point of my limited knowledge) the verse may simply be saying that the readers have been privileged to be among the first people (in contrast to the generations that would follow in their train) that God has chosen to save. This salvation was not without warrant or agent. It was warranted by their belief in the truth, and accomplished by the sanctifying Holy Spirit.
Obviously, I can see more than one possible option in interpreting this verse. Each of them is as valid as the Calvinist option—and more valid, since the Calvinist interpretation would pit this verse against most of scripture. I think that Paul would not appreciate that.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
In Jesus,
Steve
Steve
We are we saved from? So many think we are saved from hell, and that this salvation took place in a moment of time.2 Thess. 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren, beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth.
Rather we are being saved from SIN, and this is a life-long process, with the finishing touches being put on it at the coming of Christ.
God chose every disciple to undergo the process of salvation from sin throughout his life. What makes people assume we have to accept this choice? We all have the free will to reject it. Once I was chosen to have a free trip to Florida, but I refused it. I didn't want to go at the scheduled time.
Paul also spoke of us as being "pre-appointed" in Romans 8. It means much the same.
Romans 8:29 For those whom he foreknew he also pre-appointed to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the first-born among many brethren.
Again, we need not keep our appointment! Unhappily, some translations use the word "predestined" instead of "pre-appointed". This is misleading, and supports Calvinistic thinking.
However, if we co-operate with the enabling grace of Christ, then "He who began a good work in us will bring it to completion in the day of Jesus Christ."
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
Paidion
Avatar --- Age 45
"Not one soul will ever be redeemed from hell but by being saved from his sins, from the evil in him." --- George MacDonald
Avatar --- Age 45
"Not one soul will ever be redeemed from hell but by being saved from his sins, from the evil in him." --- George MacDonald