The nature of man and sin ...

Post by **_SamIam** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 2:12 pm

I’m trying to list the permutations and combinations concerning this topic. Please indicate whether you affirm or deny these statements (with brief scriptural support if you like) and which statements make you Calvinist, Arminian, Semi-Pelagian or Pelagian. Feel free to fill in any gaps.

Man is born guilty of personal sin.

Man is born innocent of personal sin.

Man is born with a spiritual defect that causes him to sin.

Man is born with a spiritual weakness that invariably results in his sin.

Man is born spiritually whole but invariably succumbs to temptation.

Man is born spiritually whole and capable of withstanding temptation.

Man sins because he is a sinner.

Man is a sinner because he sins.

Man is not capable of responding to God until God enables him.

Man is capable of responding to God, but has been hardened by repeated sins. God must remove the effect of those repeated sins before he can respond to God.

Man is capable of responding to God in spite of repeated sins.

Man is inherently bad until God acts to make him good.

Man in inherently neutral and may choose to do good or bad without any action from God.

Man is inherently good but may choose to do bad.

Post by **_Homer** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 1:00 am

Greetings SamIam,

Long time no post! Been missing you.

I will take a quick stab at it, admittedly without a lot of thought.

Man is born guilty of personal sin. -NO

Man is born innocent of personal sin. -YES

Man is born with a spiritual defect that causes him to sin. -YES

Man is born with a spiritual weakness that invariably results in his sin. -YES

Man is born spiritually whole but invariably succumbs to temptation. -NO/YES

Man is born spiritually whole and capable of withstanding temptation. -NO; capable of withstanding a sin but incapable of not sinning.

Man sins because he is a sinner. -NO

Man is a sinner because he sins. -YES

Man is not capable of responding to God until God enables him. -NO, but depends on what is meant by "enable". "The gospel is the power unto salvation."

Man is capable of responding to God, but has been hardened by repeated sins. God must remove the effect of those repeated sins before he can respond to God. -NO

Man is capable of responding to God in spite of repeated sins. -YES

Man is inherently bad until God acts to make him good. -NO, I would say man is defective until born again - God acts, man responds. God regenerates.

Man in inherently neutral and may choose to do good or bad without any action from God. -NO

Man is inherently good but may choose to do bad. -NO

Post by **_TK** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 9:10 am

i agree with Homer in all of the points.

TK

Post by **_SamIam** » Sun Jan 28, 2007 11:52 pm

Homer and TK,

Thanks for your posts.

I agree with your positions as well, but I'm not sure why.

Are these the positions that are clearly taught by scripture?

Are these the positions that are assumed by the biblical writers (even if not explicitly stated)?

Are these the mistaken notions of my spiritual mentors?

How can millions of Christians who have a very high regard for scripture reach the opposite conclusions?

Now a couple of additional questions:

Does the regenerate man still posses the spiritual defect that first led him to sin?

Was the spiritual nature of Adam imediately after his creation any different than the spiritual nature of today's newborn?

Post by **_TK** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 10:51 am

samiam--

you might want to check out the discussion on this topic here:

http://www.wvss.com/forumc/viewtopic.ph ... sc&start=0

TK

Post by **_SamIam** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 2:08 pm

TK,

Thanks for the link. I need to do more work with my ears than with my mouth.

Post by **_TK** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 2:35 pm

samiam-

i certainly am very interested in what you have to say. i just pointed you to the other discussion because i thought you might find it interesting.

TK