Meticulous Control

[Guest]

Does Proverbs 16 teach God's meticulous control over even the smallest detail:

1: The plans of the mind belong to man, but the answer of the tongue is from the LORD.

9: A man's mind plans his way, but the LORD directs his steps.


33: The lot is cast into the lap, but the decision is wholly from the LORD.

Any thoughts?

[Guest]

The verses you cite here, I think, indicate God's "ultimate control" over the events that He allows to occur. That is, even if man is the one who plans to do a certain thing, God has the final say as to whether that event will occur. Depending on how the man's own plans may fit in with God's master plan, He either permits or does not permit the plan to meet with success. God has any number of ways to foil any plan of man, if He wishes to do so. He foiled the plans of 40 men to assissinate Paul, and prevented many early attempts on Christ's life, when it was not His will for those plots to succeed. On the other hand, He permitted the final plot of Judas and the Sanhedrin to go through, since it conformed to His plans for Christ's crucifixion to occur at that time. The plots of the latter players were not spawned or ordained by God any more than were the plots of the former, failed efforts. "The plans of the mind belong to man...a man's mind plans his way." But ultimate sovereignty belongs to God, and it is ultimately He who controls the outcome.

This is contrary to the Calvinist's view of meticulous providence. Their view has God even ordaining what the man will think and choose. Thus, with meticulous providence, "The plans of the mind belong to the Lord" as well as the outcome. This is denied in these verses, and in the rest of scripture as well. Only on special occasions of divine judgment is God known to interfere with the free processes of choice in an individual (e.g., in hardening Pharaoh's heart). This was not done to Pharaoh early in his life, but well after he had chosen a course for himself of deliberate evil, and God's special intervention, preventing him from being able to repent, was an aspect of God's judgment upon him for these former free choices. Even the fact that God had to intervene, hardening his heart, in order to prevent Pharaoh from repenting, suggests that the innate power to choose to repent resided in Pharaoh previous to this intervention, and Pharaoh would have been free to repent at any point had not God stepped in with these unusual measures.

As for the lot cast into the lap, I don't think this is intended as an affirmation of meticulous providence so much as a guarantee that when the casting of lots as a means of divine guidance was appropriate (e.g., in apportioning land to the various tribes of Israel), that God would see to it that the lots would fall so as to assure the outcome He desired. The apostles counted on this principle, for example, in seeking God's mind about a replacement for Judas (Acts 1). This needn't mean that God dictates every toss of the dice in a casino (though, even if He did, it would not necessarily follow that God similarly dictated who would believe and who would not). God has the right and the power to control every event in which He chooses to intervene, but there is no affirmation here that He chooses to micro-manage every human decision.

[Guest]

In Him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of Him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of His will. (Eph. 1:11)

To Calvinists, this means that God has predetermined all things, including the salvation of the saints and the damnation of the wicked. Is this what this means?

[Guest]

In Him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of Him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of His will. (Eph. 1:11)

To Calvinists, this means that God has predetermined all things, including the salvation of the saints and the damnation of the wicked. Is this what this means?

When we look at it in context, it will be plain that that is not what Paul meant by it:

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. He pre-appointed us in love to be his sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace which he freely bestowed on us in the Beloved.
In him we have redemption through his blood, the forsaking of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace which he lavished upon us. For he has made known to us in all wisdom and insight the secret of his will, according to his purpose which he set forth in Christ as a plan for the fulness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth. In him, according to the purpose of him who accomplishes all things according to the counsel of his will, we who first hoped in Christ have been pre- appointed to live for the praise of his glory. Ephesians 1:3-11

I see the passage as emphasizing that everything and everyone will ultimately be united in Christ, and that God pre-appointed a people to be His children and to live for Him. He will accomplish this Grand Plan of the Ages, by turning the hearts of people to Himself, and enabling them through Christ's sacrifice to overcome wrongdoing and to live for Him. This is the Kingdom of God! There is a gradual growth, even though over 99% of mankind presently are rebels against the Lordship of Christ in their lives. God will patiently do His work until He "accomplishes all things"
according to His Plan, and all are reconciled to God.

This is a far cry from the idea that God micro-manages every detail of one's life. If this were the case, God would deliberately cause every case of terminal cancer, every rape and murder of little girls, every torture, and yet, be "a totally good God" because He is doing all these things to work out a deeper purpose.

This reasoning seems analogous to the following proposition:

"I know Adolph Hitler was a totally good man. Though I cannot explain why he did the things he did, he must have done them for a good reason. Otherwise, he wouldn't have done them."

[Guest]

I found some interesting comments on Eph. 1:11 here. and some more on Proverbs 16:1,9,33; 19:21 here to add to the collection.