Sin and Salvation

Post by **_Homer** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 12:12 am

Steve 7150,

You said:

Does'nt forgiving anyone include forgiving yourself...

What does it mean to "forgive yourself"? Can this be the same as forgiving others? I can't, off hand, think of anything in scripture about "forgive yourself". To my mind, forgiving always entails a cost for the forgiving party. If this is true, how would one internalize this cost? By doing penance or something?

And you said:

...if you are convinced a particular sin can cause you to lose your salvation...

I am hard pressed to think of a particular sin that would cause loss of salvation other than rejecting Christ; that is, as long as a person repents and acknowledges sin that he/she is aware of. A life of sin, or persistent, willful sin is another matter.

Blessings, Homer

Post by **_STEVE7150** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 8:35 am

What does it mean to "forgive yourself"? Can this be the same as forgiving others? I can't, off hand, think of anything in scripture about "forgive yourself". To my mind, forgiving always entails a cost for the forgiving party. If this is true, how would one internalize this cost? By doing penance or something?

Homer, About a week ago i thought i made a careless mistake in my business 3 years ago that could hurt someone and i was condemning myself. Finally i repented of carelessness and forgave myself since "there is no condemnation in Christ." The next day IMO God put in my heart to uncover info from 3 years ago that reminded me that what i had done did have a good reason and i was very relieved. I don't believe i would have uncovered this info on my own since i was careless in not leaving a trail so i attribute the forgiving of myself to God's response.

"My little children let us not love in word ,neither in tongue but in deed and in truth. And hereby we know that we are of the truth and shall assure our hearts before him. FOR IF OUR HEART CONDEMN US, God is greater than our heart, and knows all things.
Beloved , if our heart CONDEMN US NOT , then we have confidence toward God." 1 John 3.18-21

I'm not sure i understand what you mean about a cost for the forgiving party? It seems to me holding on to unforgivness is a much greater cost then forgiving.

Post by **_Homer** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 11:33 am

Steve7150,

Your question:

I'm not sure i understand what you mean about a cost for the forgiving party? It seems to me holding on to unforgivness is a much greater cost then forgiving.

There is a "cost" in forgiving in that the Christian is forbidden from taking revenge in any way. The Christian must give up not only the actual revenge, but also any thoughts of revenge. The "flesh" takes great pleasure in revenge and in fantasizing about "getting even".

Post by **_Anonymous** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 1:13 pm

Hi Homer,

I want to hear some more of your thoughts about forgiveness, but I think it's off the topic this thread was started to discuss and doesn't even belong in this section. I'm going to start a new thread in the Christian Living section.

Post by **_SoaringEagle** » Tue Nov 21, 2006 3:03 am

I posed a question to a Calvinist in regards to Matt 18 where Jesus tells Peter that if he didn't forgive his Brother, he would not be forgiven( delivered to the tormenters)...

His reply was "This is a hypothetical situation, and it is not possible because Peter was elect!"

Crazy stuff man.

Yes, if these "warning" passages are hypothetical instead of truely potential, then what God is doing to us is much like a godly parent may do to her child while in a toy store. "Junior, it's time to go. if you don't put that toy down and come on, then mommy is going to leave you here".

Now we know good and well that "mommy" will do no such thing. This is entirely hypothetical towards the child to get him to obey. Such is the case if Unconditional Eternal Security is true!

Post by **_brody_in_ga** » Tue Nov 21, 2006 3:05 pm

SoaringEagle wrote:
I posed a question to a Calvinist in regards to Matt 18 where Jesus tells Peter that if he didn't forgive his Brother, he would not be forgiven( delivered to the tormenters)...

His reply was "This is a hypothetical situation, and it is not possible because Peter was elect!"

Crazy stuff man.
Yes, if these "warning" passages are hypothetical instead of truely potential, then what God is doing to us is much like a godly parent may do to her child while in a toy store. "Junior, it's time to go. if you don't put that toy down and come on, then mommy is going to leave you here".

Now we know good and well that "mommy" will do no such thing. This is entirely hypothetical towards the child to get him to obey. Such is the case if Unconditional Eternal Security is true!

And not to mention it totally defuses the passage!! Its like once you figure out the truth of unconditional security, passages that warn against falling away have lost there meaning.

Brother Derek from the forum here is currently reading Robert Shanks book "Life in the Son, or is it "Elect in the Son"...I forget...either way, I will be asking to borrow it when he gets done..