Confused by Genesis 14:14

Post by **_Dolphin** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 3:52 am

"When Abram heard that his relative had been taken captive, he led out his trained men, born in his house, three hundred and eighteen, and went in pursuit as far as Dan."

I have been following this forum now for about a month and I felt uneasy about joining this forum because eveyone here is so much smarter than me, but my pastor dodged this question, so I thought I'd find a bunch of smart folks and ask them...

"If Moses was the author of Genesis, and he obviously wrote it before the settling of the promised land, how could he say they went as far as Dan, if the tribe of Dan haden't settled there yet?

Post by **_Benjamin Ho** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 10:08 am

Probably a copyist clarified the location of the region at a later date after the book was written. The location of Dan was previously known as Leshem (Joshua 19:47) and/or Laish (Judges 18:29).

Post by **_Homer** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 10:28 am

Dolphin,

Mystery solved. Deut. 34:1, "And the Lord showed him (Moses) all the land of Gilead as far as Dan. Gilead was about 20 miles south of the Sea of Galilee. Now look at Judges 18:27-29 where you find Laish was conquered and renamed Dan. Laish was about 30 miles north of the Sea of Galilee.

Don't be too impressed with us (me anyway), I just looked in my Keil-Delitzsch commentary on Genesis and at a map in a bible dictionary.

Blessings, Homer

Post by **_Christopher** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 11:51 am

I have been following this forum now for about a month and I felt uneasy about joining this forum because eveyone here is so much smarter than me

Don't underestimate yourself (or overestimate the rest of us), that was a very perceptive question. You don't have to be scholarly to participate... I'm not.

Post by **_Dolphin** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 4:46 pm

Don't underestimate yourself (or overestimate the rest of us),

Thanks guys

Although it felt a little intimidating when I was reading these huge essays on things that I hadn't even begun to think about.

Homer, what you said seems to still have the same problem in that Deueronomy was still written prior to the events of Judges.

So far Benjamin Ho's answer seems to be the most logical, although I would feel a little uncomfortable giving that answer to someone who asked me the same question just because I would feel like I was giving credit to the argument that, "The bible is untrustworthy because it has been changed so many times over the centuries."

I have no idea why I got so hung up on one little name of a place. Thank you for your response though

Post by **_Homer** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 11:19 pm

Dolphin,

After reading my post again I can see where I did not make what I said very clear. In Deut. 34:1 the Lord showed Moses all the land of Gilead as far as Dan. We would thus believe this Dan to have been in or bordering on the land if Gilead. Moses' view was from the area of Mt. Nebo which is about 110 miles as the crow flies from the Laish that was renamed Dan, which is not near the land of Gilead. It is doubtful that Laish (Dan) was seen by Moses when he gazed out over the plain of Gilead. Thus there must have been, as Keil suggests, another place named Dan ("dawn" in Hebrew) in the land of Gilead.

When Moses left Mamre, near Hebron, it is apparent he headed east to rescue lot who had evidently been taken captive at Sodom, which is thought to have been near the dead sea (or now under it). It is very plausable that he then chased them northward, all the way north of Damascus.

Post by **_Dolphin** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 12:13 am

Homer, I am trying, but I am having a hard time understanding what you are saying.

Like I said, you guys are alot smarter than me.

Are you suggesting that there were other places that may have been named Dan? (dawn in Hebrew) It would then be like "Fairview" or "Oak Grove", no connection to each other, but since it is a common name there are a lot of them.

By the way, I did notice your mistake... It was Abram that rescued Lot, not Moses.

PS to Roger,
Did you receive my private message??? It is still in my outbox and not in my sent box. I'm not sure if I did it right or not.

Post by **_Homer** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 12:53 am

By the way, I did notice your mistake... It was Abram that rescued Lot, not Moses.

See, you are very sharp!

It would seem not unusual for there to have been two places named Dan.

Post by **_Roger** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 3:13 am

Dolphin....I did not get your private message.

Roger

Post by **_Benjamin Ho** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 8:30 am

Just a follow-up on Homer's reply. The following quote is from Keil and Delitzsch.

So far as the situation of Dan is concerned, this passage proves that it cannot have been identical with Leshem or Laish in the valley of Beth Rehob, which the Danites conquered and named Dan (Judg. 18:28, 29; Josh. 19:47); for this Laish-Dan was on the central source of the Jordan, el Leddan in Tell el Kady, which does not lie in either of the two roads, leading from the vale of Siddim or of the Jordan to Damascus.43 This Dan belonged to Gilead (Deut. 34:1), and is no doubt the same as the Dan-Jaan mentioned in 2 Sam. 24:6 in connection with Gilead, and to be sought for in northern Peraea to the south-west of Damascus.

43 One runs below the Sea of Galilee past Fik and Nowa, almost in a straight line to Damascus; the other from Jacob’s Bridge, below Lake Merom. But if the enemy, instead of returning with their booty to Thapsacus, on the Euphrates, by one of the direct roads leading from the Jordan past Damascus and Palmyra, had gone through the land of Canaan to the sources of the Jordan, they would undoubtedly, when defeated at Laish-Dan, have fled through the Wady et Teim and the Bekaa to Hamath, and not by Damascus at all (vid., Robinson, Bibl. Researches).

Carl Friedrich Keil and Franz Delitzsch, Commentary on the Old Testament., ( Peabody, MA: Hendrickson, 2002), 1:131-132.