Is Genesis History?

dwight92070
Posts: 615
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2011 12:09 am

Is Genesis History?

Post by dwight92070 » Thu Aug 03, 2017 10:42 pm

This video on Netflix is very good.

User avatar
robbyyoung
Posts: 811
Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2013 2:23 am

Re: Is Genesis History?

Post by robbyyoung » Fri Aug 04, 2017 5:45 pm

dwight92070 wrote:This video on Netflix is very good.
Hi Dwight,

Yes, another fine example of the old & young earth creation debate. However, what I find lacking in all of these conversations is the seriousness of the supernatural element that skews observable science, as we know it. For example, Christians have no problems believing that Jesus created "baked" loaves of bread out of scraps (Matt 14:13-21). If scientists were around then, the argument would have been--God cheated! Therefore, miracles do exist and God can indeed create with age or the appearance of age. But, during creation week, why couldn't God act in the same capacity. Some believers accept that Adam and Eve were created with age, did God cheat here? Or, how about accelerating plant growth, starlight, and life itself! Surely, if God can show us that he can create "baked" bread out of thin air, he can create all things having the appearance of age in a week's time. So why is this somehow injurious to the scientific approach or reasoning? Well, because miracles do not operate in the realm of reason or explanation. If the creation week doesn't fit this mold, then nothing does. The evidence of the impossible is staring at us right in the face--and has been since the beginning of time. Something, of the highest order of intelligence, has always been, but nothing can only produce nothing!

God Bless!

dwight92070
Posts: 615
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2011 12:09 am

Re: Is Genesis History?

Post by dwight92070 » Fri Aug 04, 2017 11:21 pm

robbyyoung,

Well said!

steve7150
Posts: 2508
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 7:44 am

Re: Is Genesis History?

Post by steve7150 » Sat Aug 05, 2017 7:29 pm

But, during creation week, why couldn't God act in the same capacity. Some believers accept that Adam and Eve were created with age, did God cheat here? Or, how about accelerating plant growth, starlight, and life itself!











I've accepted this scenario as entirely possible but i can't see any reason to make it a default position.

Singalphile
Posts: 892
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2012 12:46 pm

Re: Is Genesis History?

Post by Singalphile » Sat Aug 05, 2017 10:18 pm

Sounds interesting. I don't have Netflix, but I'll keep an eye out for it somewhere.

That's kind of how I imagine things, robbyyoung. Observation and study lead nearly all geologists and anthropologists and astronomists and the like to conclude that things are billions of years old. If that's incorrect, then I suppose it would have to be because of some supernatural intervention.

It could be like a reel-to-reel machine playing a video. If we see the rate at which it turns and how much tape has passed, then we could calculate that, say, 3 hours of tape has passed. But if the tape was placed on the machine in the middle of it or sped up to a certain point, then the actual time that it's been playing at the current speed could be much shorter. But it doesn't change the fact that the reel is still at least 3 hours long and the observations and calculations would still be correct.

Like steve7150 said, it's possible, but doesn't really seem like there's any way to prove it or assume it, so I wouldn't expect anyone else to buy that (nor does it matter, as far as I can tell).
... that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. John 5:23

dwight92070
Posts: 615
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2011 12:09 am

Re: Is Genesis History?

Post by dwight92070 » Sat Aug 05, 2017 11:15 pm

Is Genesis History is on youtube also.

User avatar
robbyyoung
Posts: 811
Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2013 2:23 am

Re: Is Genesis History?

Post by robbyyoung » Sun Aug 06, 2017 8:08 am

steve7150 wrote: But, during creation week, why couldn't God act in the same capacity. Some believers accept that Adam and Eve were created with age, did God cheat here? Or, how about accelerating plant growth, starlight, and life itself!



I've accepted this scenario as entirely possible but i can't see any reason to make it a default position.
Hi steve7150,

I respectfully disagree, in part. For me, the only reasonable default position would be the "supernatural" element. What is the alternative? The natural world is the miracle--Romans 1:20. The ancient hebrews clearly understood this simple concept--Isa. 40:28 & Psalm 104:24 quickly comes to mind. I believe YECs are more consistent in their understanding. For instance, God made plants and animals after their kind, each in their respective 24 hr. day--but of course, creation week is a fantastic faith-based belief. But, the religion of science (involving believers and non-believers) either rejects or is skeptical of God's unlimited power to create all things in a week's time. So fantastic hypotheses are concocted to purposely contradict God's one-week testimony. Although both are faith-based, they do not conflate--one consistently applies the supernatural element and the other does not. Basically, I see no reason to move from God's fantastic account to Man's fantasies. Why? Because God's explanation involves miracles or the supernatural, and Man's absurdity is just that! So if creation week seems far-fetched, well it should. But, like the YECs, I do believe in miracles ;)

Blessings!

User avatar
robbyyoung
Posts: 811
Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2013 2:23 am

Re: Is Genesis History?

Post by robbyyoung » Sun Aug 06, 2017 9:43 am

Singalphile wrote:
It could be like a reel-to-reel machine playing a video. If we see the rate at which it turns and how much tape has passed, then we could calculate that, say, 3 hours of tape has passed. But if the tape was placed on the machine in the middle of it or sped up to a certain point, then the actual time that it's been playing at the current speed could be much shorter. But it doesn't change the fact that the reel is still at least 3 hours long and the observations and calculations would still be correct.
Hi Singalphile,

I like this analogy.
Singalphile wrote:Like steve7150 said, it's possible, but doesn't really seem like there's any way to prove it or assume it, so I wouldn't expect anyone else to buy that (nor does it matter, as far as I can tell).
Well it kind of does matter--1 Peter 3:15. And since Yeshua created everything, His miracles and supernatural powers--during His earthly ministry--help prove or testify to creation week's fantastic claims. In other words, God simply speaks things into existence, or speaks things as though they were--Romans 4:17. Therefore, if God's fantastic creation week claim is not trustworthy, because the supernatural was involved, then all other supernatural claims should follow the same logical skepticism or scrutiny. So having an answer for the hope we have requires both faith and trust in the written testimony. This is why the "baked bread" example is so powerful. Yeshua created this bread from scraps, with built-in time processes. Think about it, brown or black scorch markings without fire or heat present. Science would definitely be able to explain the bread ingredients, scorch marks, and approximate baking time. But, science will have no answer for the bread's instantaneous existence without due process. I believe creation week is comparable. This is why it matters. To push back against the religion of science and cling to the trustworthiness of scripture.

Blessings!

User avatar
TK
Posts: 1475
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:42 pm
Location: North Carolina

Re: Is Genesis History?

Post by TK » Sun Aug 06, 2017 2:31 pm

The problem with the "appearance of age" argument is that God knew that one day we would have technology using physics etc that God created and we would use these things to study the universe. There are a great number of Christian astrophysicists who say the evidence is overwhelming for an ancient universe.

If God created the universe with an appearance of age, with no explicit statements regarding this in scripture, He is, in effect, being deceptive.

That's why I don't buy that argument.

The bread analogy and the wine making at Cana (the wine had to be aged to be any good) are not the same thing because man already knew how to make wine and bread.

Adam and Eve being created at child bearing age is different than creating them with worn teeth, wrinkles, calluses on their feet, etc. Further, it's like saying God created the moon complete with craters from meteors that actually never struck the moon.

MMathis
Posts: 195
Joined: Fri May 25, 2012 11:15 am

Re: Is Genesis History?

Post by MMathis » Sun Aug 06, 2017 3:53 pm

TK

I agree with you. Every second of everyday, new light comes into our telescopes. That is not the same as examining an old relic and assigning an age to it.

God would have to be somewhat of a prankster to continually give us new info to analyze, at the same time, telling us to ignore it.
MMathis
Las Vegas NV

Post Reply

Return to “The Pentateuch”