Moses and the name of God.

Post by **_Jim from covina** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 1:01 am

I have been wondering about this..................

And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by [the name of] God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.
EX 6,........ (this is God telling Moses)

Notice that Abraham did not know the name of YHWH.

And he removed from thence unto a mountain on the east of Bethel, and pitched his tent, [having] Bethel on the west, and Hai on the east: and there he builded an altar unto the LORD, and called upon the name of the LORD. GEN 12

And Abram said to the king of Sodom, I have lift up mine hand unto the LORD, the most high God, the possessor of heaven and earth...... GEN 14

I am wondering how it is that Abraham could use the name YHWH, although he did not know that name??

Any thoughts? It appears that Moses inserted this, maybe. But then the account in Genesis isnt Actually how is occurred. This seems to cause problems for biblical events taking place as actual.........albeit a small one.......but it still kinda troubles me.........any ideas??

Post by **_STEVE7150** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 5:54 pm

I am wondering how it is that Abraham could use the name YHWH, although he did not know that name??

According to the notes of my hebrew bible Abraham knew the name of God to be "El Shaddai" and not Yahweh. And it says God was chastening Moses by comparing his faith unfavorably to Abraham who had a lessor revelation about God's name.

Post by **_Jim from covina** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 7:14 pm

yes steve, thats right. Abraham didnt know His name. But that was my question.
I dont think you answered my question. Did i miss something?

jim

Post by **_chriscarani** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 7:30 pm

Thats a good one. The verse you stated is not spoken by Abraham, but rather Moses telling us what he said, but there are points in Genesis where Abraham is quoted and the Hebrew word he used is YHWH. Hopefully Steve G or Emmet can chime in on this one.

Post by **_Les Wright** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 10:15 pm

Hi Jim,

I believe Steve has suggested the following:

Ex6:3 should have question mark?, as they knew God both ways ( Ex 3:6,16,18, etc..), Yahweh = covenant name for God, first used in Gen 2:4.

Both Hebrew and Greek do not supply punctuation, so it is 'open' to interpretation.

In Him,
Les

Post by **_Jim from covina** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 10:27 pm

HI Les, thanks for the reply. I have never thought of that. But i dont feel good about it. In Gen. 2, doesnt make the case that they knew that that was his name. The idea of the question mark seems to be posed because of a presuppositon that is desired to be held on to, but that begs the question.

What i mean is that a question mark would be a way of getting out of the problem that i suggested. But one cant do that unless they already think they know the answer. But that isnt proven, and it must be proved first in order to assume it, (thats what i mean by begging the question).

Although i guess its possible, i just dont feel too strong about it, but thanks les, i do appreciate the idea......its an interesting possibility.

jim d.

Post by **_Paidion** » Sat Nov 04, 2006 12:30 am

In most translations, Exodus 6:3 reads similar to the following:

I appeared to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob as God Almighty, but by my name Yahweh, I did not make myself known to them.

Notice it does not say that the Name was not known to them, but that Yahweh did not make his Name known to them.

Abraham may have learned from some other source that the name of the Almighty God was "Yahweh."

Post by **_STEVE7150** » Sat Nov 04, 2006 9:06 am

And he removed from thence unto a mountain on the east of Bethel, and pitched his tent, [having] Bethel on the west, and Hai on the east: and there he builded an altar unto the LORD, and called upon the name of the LORD. GEN 12

And Abram said to the king of Sodom, I have lift up mine hand unto the LORD, the most high God, the possessor of heaven and earth...... GEN 14

I am wondering how it is that Abraham could use the name YHWH, although he did not know that name??

How do you know LORD means "Yahweh" instead of Elohim? But assuming that it does then perhaps the way God intended Moses to understand was that Abraham did not know Yahweh as a Redeemer. That was the way Moses learned about Yahweh as the Redeemer of the jews from bondage and possibly that's the point being made. Moses had the meaning of the name Yahweh revealed to him which Abraham never did.

Post by **_Jim from covina** » Sun Nov 05, 2006 12:23 pm

Paidon............i dont know what translations you looked at, but in my septuagint and masoretic text, thats what it says............

And Steve.......How do i know YHWH means jehovah, cuz thats what it says. I dont see how your answer attempts to answer my question. Sorry, i guess i a little slow...........

The text is clear, Abraham is shown as knowing the name of God, that being YHWH, but YHWH says clearly that Moses is the first one to know it.

So, i ask again, did Moses add this.........??? inspiration/inerrancy??

Post by **_STEVE7150** » Sun Nov 05, 2006 1:09 pm

The text is clear, Abraham is shown as knowing the name of God, that being YHWH, but YHWH says clearly that Moses is the first one to know it.

Jim, my point was that maybe the expression "to know" is something like the biblical usage of a man "knowing" a women, meaning to intimately know her. Maybe God means Abraham did'nt "know the name" of Yahweh in an intimate way such as knowing Yahweh as the Redeemer from bondage.
Am i making any sense because maybe i'm not.