General Question about various beliefs held by various people

[njd83]

Again, its a loaded question
I want to ask you one yes or no question and see if you will honestly answer it.

Do you think Dr. Boyd ever asks loaded questions?

Yes?

Or no?

Probably, like everyone else. What's your point? I'm glad to hear other sides views, pointing out loaded questions. That's fine.

[dizerner]

You are asserting an assumption about foreknowledge and the fundamental reality of the future.

I do think we are both making claims above logic, metaphysical and supernatural claims.

That is why the beliefs come with such persuasive power.

I have depended more on God to guide me then my mind, and I have admitted that to you, and will admit that to you again.

peace

[dizerner]

Probably, like everyone else. What's your point? I'm glad to hear other sides views, pointing out loaded questions. That's fine.

My point is, I don't see you trying very hard to show his loaded questions.

Why not?

Is that treating both sides of the argument fairly?

No, it isn't.

[njd83]

What I mean is, you may very well have deep presuppositions about reality that stem all the way back to the changes in church mainstream thought that started bc of Augustine. Is that relevant? I thought so.
Which of us is quoting someone else's thoughts more?

You or me?

You want to make a claim to relevance that my thoughts have been "influenced" in some way I am not aware of. I'm open to that. But by saying that, you are implying I am a person who is not thinking deeply about where my thoughts are coming from. You need to cite specific thoughts I am saying the exact source they are coming from outside of logic, and not vague generalities to poison the well.

You assume I am trying to be insulting. I am not. The reason I talk about our thoughts being "influenced" is because you keep asserting things related to your assumption of the reality of Foreknowledge and Free Will, which makes me think about how our current mainstream theologies got to their present state. I am not trying to be offensive that you are not "thinking deeply for yourself". I don't care how much you read other people's thoughts, or think for yourself. I don't care, its doesn't matter to me.

[dizerner]

I used to say "some things we just can't understand about God", I used to teach my friends this very idea, but I never really understood what I was saying.

This was an interesting statement to me.

Is it impossible understand the concept of not understanding something?

Or is there an unwillingness in all of us to readily accept the idea?

I'll be honest with you and say something intuitively about the idea bothers me too.

I've really wrestled with why I feel that way.

[dizerner]

I don't care, its doesn't matter to me.

It's all good brother, I certainly think things can "influence" our thinking and we not be aware of it.

[njd83]

Probably, like everyone else. What's your point? I'm glad to hear other sides views, pointing out loaded questions. That's fine.
My point is, I don't see you trying very hard to show his loaded questions.

Why not?

Is that treating both sides of the argument fairly?

No, it isn't.

I am totally willing to be persuaded by Boyd to believe the Open View. I am totally willing to let Boyd take the wheel and take me on a ride of re-evaluating all kinds of texts which I have read in the past, but never had a coherent synthesis of. That being said, when I get the wheel back, I will have immersed myself in an intelligent and well-meaning Dr Pastor's thoughts, to now read the texts again for myself and see what kind of scrutiny comes up. I am okay with that. I've already heard the Arminian and Calvinistic and other's views for many years.

If you have some good "loaded questions" from Boyd, please post the best ones so we can look at them.

The assertion you keep making has to do with Foreknowledge and the reality of the Future and Free Will. Foreknowledge vs Necessity, or whatever it was.

[dizerner]

You assume I am trying to be insulting. I am not.

You know I never said you deliberately meant to be. It's easy not to think through the logic of what we say.

[njd83]

I used to say "some things we just can't understand about God", I used to teach my friends this very idea, but I never really understood what I was saying.
This was an interesting statement to me.

Is it impossible understand the concept of not understanding something?

Or is there an unwillingness in all of us to readily accept the idea?

I'll be honest with you and say something intuitively about the idea bothers me too.

I've really wrestled with why I feel that way.

I want to apologize for not being clear....

What I meant was "I did not understand the whole of the logical conclusions and ramifications of what I was saying". I was saying words that I did not "own" in my heart.

[dizerner]

If you have some good "loaded questions" from Boyd, please post the best ones so we can look at them.

You already admitted Boyd "probably" has loaded questions.

That means you admit to believing there is a more than 50% chance some of the questions he asks, of which you seem to be eager to let those questions "take the wheel," are loaded questions.

Why are you being so lazy that you want someone else to find them?

Why aren't you going and finding those "probable" loaded questions yourself?

Would you walk through a field of landmines and then ask someone else to go find the mines that are "probably" there?

To quote Mr. Biden, "C'mon man."

It just shows both a lack of diligence and sincerity.