General Question about various beliefs held by various people

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njd83
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Re: General Question about various beliefs held by various people

Post by njd83 » Sat Mar 05, 2022 2:28 pm

It's pretty hard to think outside of temporal terms.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRPbrWVla68

It may in fact, be impossible for created things to do so.
This is why in my early days as a believer I RAN away from anything Craig, even though I knew nothing about theology. He makes such simple things so complicated, and also like... so wrong.

Theologies are starting to make me repulsed again like they did in my early believer days. I feel like I've found the simple truth, something along the lines of Open View or Dynamic Omniscience... and everything else is an unwanted visitor. I guess I am putting the "Do Not Disturb" placard on my door again

dizerner

Re: General Question about various beliefs held by various people

Post by dizerner » Sat Mar 05, 2022 2:40 pm

It's pretty dang simple that God literally knows everything.

Don't need Craig or Boyd for that.

I won't embrace this evil idea just to feel better, sorry.

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njd83
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Re: General Question about various beliefs held by various people

Post by njd83 » Sat Mar 05, 2022 3:06 pm

God knowing a future that has not happened yet in complete exhaustive detail about the free will agents made in his own image and likeness (he himself has free agency and a mind), is not simple at all. Its also confusing because God is so wonderful, and holy, and good, and merciful, and loving. But that's besides the point if its true. The FAX are that GOD deals with HUMANS in a dynamic open way in scripture... and I DON'T WANT TO HAVE TO REINTERPRET ALL KINDS OF S--T JUST TO HOLD TO SOME PET THEOLOGY.


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njd83
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Re: General Question about various beliefs held by various people

Post by njd83 » Sat Mar 05, 2022 7:36 pm

BTW way I just googld up "common verses about foreknowledge and predestination" in order to review the texts again to see any possible refutation of the open view:

https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/ ... eknowledge

I went through these 15 verses in the NASB, willing to look at the Greek and Hebrew if desirable in Logos, and none of these verses makes me think the open view is gravely incorrect.

Willing to keep thinking about it as i read a bit of the texts here and there... but that's pretty much it.

You saying "God knows everything, its simple" doesn't do anything for me.

You define the future and time completely foreign to our experience of reality and the texts.

I'm not convinced, but please feel free to post scriptures so I can look them up in Logos and ruminate on your points.

BTW you have not actually read the book by Boyd, I have read much of it, and so you are still making arguments which you have not considered are confronted in said book. so...

I have booked marked the Dynamic Omniscience Debunked video.

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njd83
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Re: General Question about various beliefs held by various people

Post by njd83 » Sat Mar 05, 2022 7:44 pm

Also one more "broad" point about approaching the texts, and about the worldview we bring to the table in reading or anything in life.

I learned a lot about this principle of "worldview lens" from Creation.com about viewing evidence for or against evolution/creation. I realized the SAME DATA in inserted into a worldview lens and interpreted along those lines, whether Creation or EVO.

And so, to remind you again, about the history of the church and ECF and Augustine's affect on thought in general.

When you approach a text you may not be aware of a worldview that you hold. You seemed to get offended when I said something similar "as if you are not a deep thinker", which I thought was a strange reaction since I was not trying to be insulting at all.

I think highly of what I learned about Worldview Lens' from Creation.com, and so now reading the texts again with those Open View ideas now more firmly understood in my mind, that THE SAME EVIDENCE so to speak can be interpreted from a Different Worldview Lens, specifically Open View lens, I am not having any issues with the scripture texts that have been used to deduce Complete and Exhaustive Foreknowledge. Like I literally have no issue as of now, in reading the texts from an Open View type of standpoint. But I am open to looking at more texts and the original language/lexicons.

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Re: General Question about various beliefs held by various people

Post by njd83 » Sat Mar 05, 2022 8:59 pm

On an unrelated topic, of a general sort of nature, I have been reading and learning about fasting, both biblically as well as from the scientific studies.

Its certainty interesting that our bodies almost have a built in function to provide health/healing biological benefits for periods of fasting or low caloric periods.

I've looked into the biblical and pastoral take on fasting, but I also like confirmation from non-believers about certain things. The dual confirmation is always nice.

Fasting For Survival Lecture by Dr Pradip Jamnadas
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuOvn4UqznU

Addiction: Why We Can't Fast or Keep a Diet - Dr Pradip Jamnadas MD - Fasting for Survival follow up
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kN83jppeI7Q

dizerner

Re: General Question about various beliefs held by various people

Post by dizerner » Wed Mar 09, 2022 5:03 am

You keep twisting my points, that's frustrating. The point is, God knowing everything is just AS simple as God somehow not knowing everything. You already admitted limiting God's knowledge somehow makes you feel better about God creating knowing suffering will happen. This means it's a stronger compass for your interpretation than just metaphorical speech. God's forgetting being metaphorical somehow escapes your own "pet theory" accusation, and you fail to see your own inconsistency that's been illustrated several times. You expressed no concern about being equal to both views or careful about examining motives and presuppositions. You are clearly not believing something based on interpretive reasons. It would benefit you to see that.

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njd83
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Re: General Question about various beliefs held by various people

Post by njd83 » Wed Mar 09, 2022 5:18 pm

You're kind of nutty

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Re: General Question about various beliefs held by various people

Post by njd83 » Thu Mar 10, 2022 4:04 pm

This message made more sense to me than any other sermon in my entire life.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Olm5RTphmPM

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