The death penalty, society, and the new covenant.

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JacobMartinMertens
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Re: The death penalty, society, and the new covenant.

Post by JacobMartinMertens » Fri May 06, 2016 2:26 pm

jaydam wrote:
JacobMartinMertens wrote:
jaydam wrote: Ok, so the things we are to obey - according to you - are what Christ said to do, and subsequent commands found in the NT. We can leave it at that for now.

So how do you get backwards to the Mosaic Law?
By that the Law was not abolished by Jesus.
So we have more to obey than just what you referenced earlier as the commands of Jesus and subsequent commands in the NT?
Not being born under the Law we must consider that which came before us which we did not know only through the study of the New Testament.
John 1:41, 49 NASB - 41 He found first his own brother Simon and said to him, "We have found the Messiah" (which translated means Christ). 49 - Nathanael answered Him, "Rabbi, You are the Son of God; You are the King of Israel."

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jaydam
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Re: The death penalty, society, and the new covenant.

Post by jaydam » Fri May 06, 2016 2:33 pm

JacobMartinMertens wrote:
jaydam wrote:
JacobMartinMertens wrote:By that the Law was not abolished by Jesus.
So we have more to obey than just what you referenced earlier as the commands of Jesus and subsequent commands in the NT?
Not being born under the Law we must consider that which came before us which we did not know only through the study of the New Testament.
You lost me again with this comment...

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JacobMartinMertens
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Re: The death penalty, society, and the new covenant.

Post by JacobMartinMertens » Fri May 06, 2016 2:35 pm

jaydam wrote:
JacobMartinMertens wrote:
jaydam wrote:So we have more to obey than just what you referenced earlier as the commands of Jesus and subsequent commands in the NT?
Not being born under the Law we must consider that which came before us which we did not know only through the study of the New Testament.
You lost me again with this comment...
Old covenant law is not the only law found in the Old Testament.
John 1:41, 49 NASB - 41 He found first his own brother Simon and said to him, "We have found the Messiah" (which translated means Christ). 49 - Nathanael answered Him, "Rabbi, You are the Son of God; You are the King of Israel."

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jaydam
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Re: The death penalty, society, and the new covenant.

Post by jaydam » Fri May 06, 2016 2:39 pm

JacobMartinMertens wrote:
jaydam wrote:
JacobMartinMertens wrote: Not being born under the Law we must consider that which came before us which we did not know only through the study of the New Testament.
You lost me again with this comment...
Old covenant law is not the only law found in the Old Testament.
I'm still not tracking your logic.

I thought we had nailed down that you saw our obedience was to Christ's commands and some commands you see subsequently in the NT.

Now you are back to cryptic/vague language about OT stuff, and not answering directly.

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JacobMartinMertens
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Re: The death penalty, society, and the new covenant.

Post by JacobMartinMertens » Fri May 06, 2016 2:41 pm

jaydam wrote:
JacobMartinMertens wrote:
jaydam wrote:Old covenant law is not the only law found in the Old Testament.
I'm still not tracking your logic.

I thought we had nailed down that you saw our obedience was to Christ's commands and some commands you see subsequently in the NT.

Now you are back to cryptic/vague language about OT stuff, and not answering directly.
If you read scripture from the beginning to the end, you are reading Old Testament scripture and New Testament scripture. God's commands are found throughout. You asked why I believe I should obey old covenant commands. I said Jesus did not abolish the Law.
John 1:41, 49 NASB - 41 He found first his own brother Simon and said to him, "We have found the Messiah" (which translated means Christ). 49 - Nathanael answered Him, "Rabbi, You are the Son of God; You are the King of Israel."

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Paidion
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Re: The death penalty, society, and the new covenant.

Post by Paidion » Fri May 06, 2016 4:51 pm

Jacob, do you think Paul was mistaken in writing the following?

Likewise, my brothers, you also have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead, in order that we may bear fruit for God. (Romans 7:4)

But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve not under the old written code but in the new life of the Spirit. (Romans 7:6 )


Jacob, are you released from the law? Have you died yet to that which holds you captive (namely the law)?
Paidion

Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.

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JacobMartinMertens
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Re: The death penalty, society, and the new covenant.

Post by JacobMartinMertens » Fri May 06, 2016 4:53 pm

Paidion wrote:Jacob, do you think Paul was mistaken in writing the following?

Likewise, my brothers, you also have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead, in order that we may bear fruit for God. (Romans 7:4)

But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve not under the old written code but in the new life of the Spirit. (Romans 7:6 )


Jacob, are you released from the law? Have you died yet to that which holds you captive (namely the law)?
I don't believe Paul was mistaken. But to answer your question I do not believe the law hold me captive.
John 1:41, 49 NASB - 41 He found first his own brother Simon and said to him, "We have found the Messiah" (which translated means Christ). 49 - Nathanael answered Him, "Rabbi, You are the Son of God; You are the King of Israel."

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Paidion
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Re: The death penalty, society, and the new covenant.

Post by Paidion » Fri May 06, 2016 8:58 pm

I do not believe the law hold me captive.
Why do you think you, as a law-keeper, are not held captive, while Paul affirms that the law-keepers he was addressing WERE held captive by the law? What makes you exempt?
Paidion

Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.

Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 82.

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Homer
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Re: The death penalty, society, and the new covenant.

Post by Homer » Sat May 07, 2016 8:37 am

Jacob,

Which parts of The Law of Moses do you keep and how do you decide? Neither Jesus nor the Apostles separated the law into ceremonial, moral, legal, etc. It all stands or falls together. Didn't Paul say that if you are circumcised you must keep all of the law?

Those who think the LOM is still in effect do not strictly keep the Sabbath:

Exodus 16:29 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

29. See, the Lord has given you the sabbath; therefore He gives you bread for two days on the sixth day. Remain every man in his place; let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.”


If the law is still in effect, how do those who go to church on the Sabbath keep it? Shouldn't they all stay home?

Didn't God destroy the temple for good in 70AD and as Jesus prophesied and put an end to the LOM system for good? When you read 2 Corinthians 3 doesn't it indicate the LOM is finished?

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JacobMartinMertens
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Re: The death penalty, society, and the new covenant.

Post by JacobMartinMertens » Sun May 08, 2016 10:14 am

Paidion wrote:
I do not believe the law hold me captive.
Why do you think you, as a law-keeper, are not held captive, while Paul affirms that the law-keepers he was addressing WERE held captive by the law? What makes you exempt?
I think you don't understand. My understanding of law-keeping is keeping the law in order to be saved, or keeping the law. There is a difference. Christians are not to break the law. But Christians know they are not saved by the law.
John 1:41, 49 NASB - 41 He found first his own brother Simon and said to him, "We have found the Messiah" (which translated means Christ). 49 - Nathanael answered Him, "Rabbi, You are the Son of God; You are the King of Israel."

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