Paul wrote this that Gentiles had come to believe in God.

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JacobMartinMertens
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Re: Paul wrote this that Gentiles had come to believe in God

Post by JacobMartinMertens » Mon Feb 01, 2016 1:08 am

dizerner wrote:Still didn't tell me how and why the Law is ministration of condemnation, sin and death. Until you know that, don't preach it to others.
2 Corinthians 3:7-9 NASB - 7 But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones, came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation has glory, much more does the ministry of righteousness abound in glory.

Knowing these verses does not give anyone a license to sin or to use the law incorrectly, if you use it at all or can use it at all. Remember 1 Timothy 1:5, 8-11.

1 Timothy 1:5, 8-11 NASB - 5 But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. ... 8 But we know that the Law is good, if one uses it lawfully, 9 realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers 10 and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching, 11 according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted.
John 1:41, 49 NASB - 41 He found first his own brother Simon and said to him, "We have found the Messiah" (which translated means Christ). 49 - Nathanael answered Him, "Rabbi, You are the Son of God; You are the King of Israel."

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dizerner
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Re: Paul wrote this that Gentiles had come to believe in God

Post by dizerner » Mon Feb 01, 2016 1:20 am

JacobMartinMertens wrote:
dizerner wrote:Still didn't tell me how and why the Law is ministration of condemnation, sin and death. Until you know that, don't preach it to others.
2 Corinthians 3:7-9 NASB - 7 But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones, came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation has glory, much more does the ministry of righteousness abound in glory.

Knowing these verses does not give anyone a license to sin or to use the law incorrectly, if you use it at all or can use it at all. Remember 1 Timothy 1:5, 8-11.

1 Timothy 1:5, 8-11 NASB - 5 But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. ... 8 But we know that the Law is good, if one uses it lawfully, 9 realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers 10 and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching, 11 according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted.
There is no one righteous, NO NOT ONE. All are justified as a FREE GIFT and all are sanctified AS A FREE GIFT.

Now if you tell me "but both gifts must be accepted!" then THERE I can agree with you. We have found common ground as long as all is a gift.
~ Classical Arminian Christian Mystic ~

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JacobMartinMertens
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Re: Paul wrote this that Gentiles had come to believe in God

Post by JacobMartinMertens » Mon Feb 01, 2016 1:27 am

dizerner wrote:
JacobMartinMertens wrote:
dizerner wrote:Still didn't tell me how and why the Law is ministration of condemnation, sin and death. Until you know that, don't preach it to others.
2 Corinthians 3:7-9 NASB - 7 But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones, came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation has glory, much more does the ministry of righteousness abound in glory.

Knowing these verses does not give anyone a license to sin or to use the law incorrectly, if you use it at all or can use it at all. Remember 1 Timothy 1:5, 8-11.

1 Timothy 1:5, 8-11 NASB - 5 But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. ... 8 But we know that the Law is good, if one uses it lawfully, 9 realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers 10 and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching, 11 according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted.
There is no one righteous, NO NOT ONE. All are justified as a FREE GIFT and all are sanctified AS A FREE GIFT.

Now if you tell me "but both gifts must be accepted!" then THERE I can agree with you. We have found common ground as long as all is a gift.
Are you giving your understanding from Galatians 3:3 NASB - 3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?

The next verse also comes to mind. Verse 10 also came up in my Bible search. "until the day of"

Philippians 1:6, 10 NASB - 6 For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus. ... 10 so that you may approve the things that are excellent, in order to be sincere and blameless until the day of Christ;
John 1:41, 49 NASB - 41 He found first his own brother Simon and said to him, "We have found the Messiah" (which translated means Christ). 49 - Nathanael answered Him, "Rabbi, You are the Son of God; You are the King of Israel."

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dizerner
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Re: Paul wrote this that Gentiles had come to believe in God

Post by dizerner » Mon Feb 01, 2016 1:42 am

JacobMartinMertens wrote:Are you giving your understanding from Galatians 3:3 NASB - 3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?

The next verse also comes to mind. Verse 10 also came up in my Bible search. "until the day of"

Philippians 1:6, 10 NASB - 6 For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus. ... 10 so that you may approve the things that are excellent, in order to be sincere and blameless until the day of Christ;
Some people talk like grace is obvious and everybody always lives by it. Were that true, we would all be living in more of the power of God than we are. Instead you see a lot of struggling saints, and a lot of mixture of Law and Grace. Don't tell me that's not important. The Bible says it is. If we live under Law we experience our Adamic nature, if we live under Christ we live in Christ's resurrection life. That's the difference between heaven and hell. You want to commend and command obedience. But it's a matter of death or life. Don't dress up a corpse with "outward" obedience. You don't need to command anyone to breathe or to beat their heart. Life lives. And Jesus' life lives. But when we stifle that life and give in the flesh, we are receiving God's grace in vain. If you preach obedience is letting God's grace work in you, than life will result. If you preach obedience is "do or die" then death will result. But there is room for kindness and severity. And we can't find the new life until we die to our own belief in our goodness. If grace is the only thing that will bring obedience, we best know what brings it. And we best know our own spiritual level of maturity, so we don't as Paul said "think too highly of ourselves." We should all be having Christ being formed in us, and we should all be obeying Christ, but that's something we simply can't do on our own. Our faith can bring us the miracle of sanctification we need. Don't take the place of the Holy Ghost, let him move and speak. Then the results of how that grace are received, the obedience based on faith, is on them because you did your part. That's how I live.
~ Classical Arminian Christian Mystic ~

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JacobMartinMertens
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Re: Paul wrote this that Gentiles had come to believe in God

Post by JacobMartinMertens » Mon Feb 01, 2016 1:53 am

dizerner wrote:
JacobMartinMertens wrote:Are you giving your understanding from Galatians 3:3 NASB - 3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?

The next verse also comes to mind. Verse 10 also came up in my Bible search. "until the day of"

Philippians 1:6, 10 NASB - 6 For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus. ... 10 so that you may approve the things that are excellent, in order to be sincere and blameless until the day of Christ;
Some people talk like grace is obvious and everybody always lives by it. Were that true, we would all be living in more of the power of God than we are. Instead you see a lot of struggling saints, and a lot of mixture of Law and Grace. Don't tell me that's not important. The Bible says it is. If we live under Law we experience our Adamic nature, if we live under Christ we live in Christ's resurrection life. That's the difference between heaven and hell. You want to commend and command obedience. But it's a matter of death or life. Don't dress up a corpse with "outward" obedience. You don't need to command anyone to breathe or to beat their heart. Life lives. And Jesus' life lives. But when we stifle that life and give in the flesh, we are receiving God's grace in vain. If you preach obedience is letting God's grace work in you, than life will result. If you preach obedience is "do or die" then death will result. But there is room for kindness and severity. And we can't find the new life until we die to our own belief in our goodness. If grace is the only thing that will bring obedience, we best know what brings it. And we best know our own spiritual level of maturity, so we don't as Paul said "think too highly of ourselves." We should all be having Christ being formed in us, and we should all be obeying Christ, but that's something we simply can't do on our own. Our faith can bring us the miracle of sanctification we need. Don't take the place of the Holy Ghost, let him move and speak. Then the results of how that grace are received, the obedience based on faith, is on them because you did your part. That's how I live.
We are not under law we are under grace. Romans 6:14-15 NASB - 14 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace. 15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be!

There is a difference between faith and law. This means faith establishes the law and it means that the law is not of faith. Galatians 3:12 NASB - 12 However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, "HE WHO PRACTICES THEM SHALL LIVE BY THEM." Romans 3:31 NASB - 31 Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law.

You have been sanctified by what Christ Jesus did. This is true for you if you are a saved born again believer.

Acts 26:18 NASB - 18 to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me.'

1 Corinthians 1:2 NASB - 2 To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling, with all who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours:

Hebrews 10:10 NASB - 10 By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

There is place to talk about the work of the Spirit of God in salvation.

Titus 3:5 NASB - 5 He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,
John 1:41, 49 NASB - 41 He found first his own brother Simon and said to him, "We have found the Messiah" (which translated means Christ). 49 - Nathanael answered Him, "Rabbi, You are the Son of God; You are the King of Israel."

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