What is the meaning and purpose of life?

[robbyyoung]

We may not be in disagreement about this at all; I was fearful that you were presenting the purpose of God in the manner of a sergeant-major, and not a loving God.

What, you don't believe SGM's love their troops?

God Bless.

[jriccitelli]

‘To worship God and to Glorify God’ I once gave this answer to the same question posed to us in an LDS Sunday school class, I was scoffed at by a few, and a few of them told me that: our purpose was to become a god (how is that for an answer!!!)

I would think that since so many here have spoken of, and thought about the post-mortem, I was considering the end of the phrase: “‘To worship God and to Glorify God, and to enjoy him forever" And (in response to the original op) how much the joy and enjoyment side of our relationship with God and others in heaven should be considered as our end in purpose. Once sin is done away with, and the knowledge of good and evil firmly understood, with the old Earth past and the New Earth come, God will then reveal the original purpose of His Creation ‘to dwell with man, and us with Him, and with One another’ (in Holiness). I understand that God will live both in us, and us in Him, and God will be walking among us just as He did on Earth. I believe we will Worship Him and all His Glory, and be able to fellowship with Him like a friend, like when Jesus was with the Disciples. I don’t know ‘how’ God can do this, but I can’t wait! But while we wait, think of the people we are one with in Christ here already, and work on building these relationships, rather than just thinking our relationships with our brothers and sisters are only something in the future waiting to happen. Gods purpose is for us to experience these relationships now, enjoy them, and want more of them, here.
“For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth;
And the former things will not be remembered or come to mind.
18 “But be glad and rejoice forever in what I create;
For behold, I create Jerusalem for rejoicing
And her people for gladness’ (Isaiah 65:17-18)

I think the part about: His dwelling in ‘all believers’ often gets overlooked by the emphasis put on: our ‘personal relationship’ with Him. I do not believe the two should be separate of each other, I believe Gods Purpose is to make us all One in Him (if it were not so, He would not have said so). I think God loves life, He loves all of us, and we should ‘enjoy’ that He loves ‘all’ of us. This may be why I put a lot of emphasis on fellowship in the Church. I believe God created us all to be One together with God, and it is destructive, and traditional, to put all our focus on our own ‘personal’ relationship with God. I try and make an extra effort to look for the Jesus ‘in’ other people, and get to know God through other believers. We were not created to be alone, and our individuality and self-centeredness is what got us into trouble and sin in the first place. So when I see a brother, I see someone that I can have a relationship with for eternity. So I should get to know them, develop relationships, let them know that we can share Jesus, and enjoy our relationships, because that is what builds the body of Christ, and that is what God enjoys.

‘Man's chief end is to glorify God, and to enjoy him forever’ that is the answer a bible teacher is expected to give. And that is the answer I generally give. But it sounds rather forced and makes God sound needy if you don’t understand or know, or really love God. I believe that God is to be Worshiped in true Holiness, and that His Glory is of indescribable super awesomeness, and this will be even more spectacular when His Glory is made visible in the future Kingdom of God! And worshipping God is going to be much more intimate in the New world, just as it will also be much more corporate. Once we are in Him and with God, our relationship will be much more emotional than we can fathom here. That may sound esoteric to some, and it is, but those who have experienced God intimately have received ‘a taste’ of that intimacy to come. It is not something God just hands out to everybody, it can happen in moments, and in parts, when we really need Him, but God has not intended this earth to be the place where we have this relationship fulfilled.

Some people find that it is hard to perceive that this kind of intimacy, emotion and excitement in worship is possible. We can experience great passion when we are in love with our family and close ones, and great excitement like when we go see our favorite team play. And some find we can almost worship our spouse or favorite team if not for their humanness. But God will someday remove ‘all’ the sin that ruins our relationships.

“And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He will dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be among them” (Rev 21:3)

[jriccitelli]

‘Not meaning to derail the thread, but JR, you referred to "He, the Trinity". I am puzzled about this. How can the Trinity, which supposedly is composed of three persons be "He"? The pronoun "He" refers to ONE person’ (Paidion)

How do you make One out of three? How do we make One out of two? Or out of many?
‘For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, 15 by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace’ (Eph 2:14-15) ‘For even as the body is one and yet has many members, and all the members of the body, though they are many, are one body, so also is Christ. For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body’ (1Cor 12:12)
‘We have yet to see Him in His Glory, and what He is and what we will be is yet to be seen (1John3:2). God is Spirit so who but God can understand the Spirit and what He is? They have told us to believe what they have said about Themselves, and what to believe about their Oneness, and that is: All three testify that they are One. We are in Christ, in The Spirit, and in The Father. And They also are All in us. And just the same we are all in Christ who believe, and we All are One. And so shall we be on earth as it is in Heaven, this we believe is not metaphorical, it is simply true. What you should be wondering is: how God says a man and woman are one, and how does God indwell a man? Once you understand that, you will understand the rest.

(I would have put that answer on another thread, but His Oneness and Their relationship, is pertinent to us understanding our relationship and oneness with Them)

[Paidion]

How do you make One out of three? How do we make One out of two? Or out of many?
‘For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, 15 by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace’ (Eph 2:14-15) ‘For even as the body is one and yet has many members, and all the members of the body, though they are many, are one body, so also is Christ. For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body.

Totally true, JR, that the Body of Christ is one entity, and people from two different groups, Jew and Gentile, form that one body. However, no one ever refers to that one body as "he". So I think my point still stands.

[Paidion]

Concerning the original question, "What is the meaning and purpose of life?", let's look a little deeper.

1. Consider a baby that dies on the same day as its birth. What is the meaning and purpose of its life?
2. Consider a person who lives his whole life only to serve himself. What is the meaning and purpose of his life?
3. What was the meaning and purpose of Stalin's life, and Hitler's?

Or do only Christians have a meaning and purpose to life? Consider a Christian man who spends years preparing to become a missionary, and who dies in a plane crash on the way to the mission field. What is the meaning and purpose of his life?

As individuals, or as a special group, we may have a purpose or purposes in life, and that may be meaningful to us. But is it possible that life itself doesn't have a meaning and purpose?

[jriccitelli]

I will respond to Paidion here under:
Re: Is the trinity "extra-biblical"

[Michelle]

Concerning the original question, "What is the meaning and purpose of life?", let's look a little deeper.

1. Consider a baby that dies on the same day as its birth. What is the meaning and purpose of its life?
2. Consider a person who lives his whole life only to serve himself. What is the meaning and purpose of his life?
3. What was the meaning and purpose of Stalin's life, and Hitler's?

Or do only Christians have a meaning and purpose to life? Consider a Christian man who spends years preparing to become a missionary, and who dies in a plane crash on the way to the mission field. What is the meaning and purpose of his life?

As individuals, or as a special group, we may have a purpose or purposes in life, and that may be meaningful to us. But is it possible that life itself doesn't have a meaning and purpose?

This thread has been very interesting to read, especially Paidion's last comment, which I have quoted here. Paidion, that last question is provocative. Does it reflect your understanding of life and/or what scripture teaches us?

[jriccitelli]

Or do only Christians have a meaning and purpose to life? Consider a Christian man who spends years preparing to become a missionary, and who dies in a plane crash on the way to the mission field. What is the meaning and purpose of his life?

This world has a meaning and purpose, it will forever be an example to what sin does to ruin a good thing like Creation. We learned that we should believe Gods Word and follow Him and His instruction. And we wouldn't wonder again what it would be like to follow our own ways, ignore what God has really said, and fall for the lie.

As individuals, or as a special group, we may have a purpose or purposes in life, and that may be meaningful to us. But is it possible that life itself doesn't have a meaning and purpose?

Sin ruins what is good, our purpose here is to understand that.

[robbyyoung]

Concerning the original question, "What is the meaning and purpose of life?", let's look a little deeper.

1. Consider a baby that dies on the same day as its birth. What is the meaning and purpose of its life?
2. Consider a person who lives his whole life only to serve himself. What is the meaning and purpose of his life?
3. What was the meaning and purpose of Stalin's life, and Hitler's?

Or do only Christians have a meaning and purpose to life? Consider a Christian man who spends years preparing to become a missionary, and who dies in a plane crash on the way to the mission field. What is the meaning and purpose of his life?

As individuals, or as a special group, we may have a purpose or purposes in life, and that may be meaningful to us. But is it possible that life itself doesn't have a meaning and purpose?

Hi Paidion,

IMHO, your concerns mirrors "the all is vanity" preaching of Ecclesiastes. Your feelings and concerns are ancient, told and heard many times over, for indeed, we all have been there. You said:

1. Consider a baby that dies on the same day as its birth. What is the meaning and purpose of its life?

The Preacher said, "(Eccl. 4:2-3) So I congratulated the dead who are already dead more than the living who are still living. But better off than both of them is the one who has never existed, who has never seen the evil activity that is done under the sun." ...(Eccl. 6:3-5) If a man fathers a hundred children and lives many years, however many they be, but his soul is not satisfied with good things and he does not even have a proper burial, then I say, Better the miscarriage than he, for it comes in futility and goes into obscurity; and its name is covered in obscurity. It never sees the sun and it never knows anything; it is better off than he."

It seems to me that The Preacher's wisdom gives light to this curiosity we have concerning abortion or miscarriage. He said it equates to never even existing, and that would mean soulless, no breath of life.

You said:

2. Consider a person who lives his whole life only to serve himself. What is the meaning and purpose of his life?
3. What was the meaning and purpose of Stalin's life, and Hitler's?

The Preacher said, "(Eccl. 3:16-18) Furthermore, I have seen under the sun that in the place of justice there is wickedness and in the place of righteousness there is wickedness. I said to myself, God will judge both the righteous man and the wicked man, for a time for every matter and for every deed is there." ...(Eccl. 7:15) I have seen everything during my lifetime of futility; there is a righteous man who perishes in his righteousness and there is a wicked man who prolongs his life in his wickedness.

The Preacher also says, "(Eccl. 8:17) and I saw every work of God, I concluded that man cannot discover the work which has been done under the sun. Even though man should seek laboriously, he will not discover; and though the wise man should say, "I know," he cannot discover." (Eccl. 7:14) In the day of prosperity be happy, But in the day of adversity consider— God has made the one as well as the other, So that man will not discover anything that will be after him."

Here's the end game or "purpose", if you will:

"(Eccl. 12:13-14) The conclusion, when all has been heard, is: fear God and keep His commandments, because this applies to every person. For God will bring every act to judgment, everything which is hidden, whether it is good or evil."

Ecclesiastes is a really good example of the struggles and questions we have as human beings. Reading through the book again, I could have really commented on a host of things. I would encourage all of us to give it another quick review as it relates to the OP.

God Bless.

[jriccitelli]

I know why the book has the name of 'the Preacher', but i think calling it 'the Philosopher' would explain this books approach better. What makes this book seem odd, and even hopeless in some of its outlook, is the writers seemingly un-spiritual, this world only, view of everything (much like Jobs friends) with no afterlife, just a judgment, and no reward or promise of a life beyond this one. Paul also quotes this book, to point out the meaningless of life and our Gospel w/o a resurrection: "So I commended pleasure, for there is nothing good for a man under the sun except to eat and to drink and to be merry" (Eccl 8:15) and Paul: "What do I gain if, humanly speaking, I fought with beasts at Ephesus? If the dead are not raised, “Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die” (1Cor 15:32. Isaiah also quotes this passage and philosophy in a negative way). Good point Robby, the Preacher asks what is the purpose of life - without expecting a resurrection (or having a hope in God to justify those with faith, with righteousness). This is not the same as Atheism, they do not expect a Judgment like the book of Eccles. does. The hopelessness of Eccle. is a contrast with all the promises made in the other books, where the righteous are promised life and goodness, even if in this world they suffer and are killed. This book is important, because it helps us see this world as it really is, hopeless, yet something to be lived and enjoyed. A good level headed balance to have, appreciate this world for all it's good and simplicity, but see don't expect this world to satisfy us, it is not something we should get attached to.