Would Adam have had dominion over storms?

[psimmond]

I suspect Adam and Eve were pretty amazing people--genetically perfect, incredibly beautiful, and highly intelligent. (It would be very interesting to know how they would score on an IQ test.)

I can't see any reason, however, for thinking Adam and Eve possessed supernatural attributes.

In some ways, it seems NT believers have some advantages over Adam and Eve because the Spirit of God resides in us. So perhaps a NT believer is more likely to do supernatural acts than Adam or Eve.

[Ian]

When Jesus asked the disciples in the boat, "where is your faith?" was he not implying that they were deficient in something?

I suppose he could have meant one of three things:

"Why don`t you have the faith that this storm isn`t going to hurt you?"

or

"Why don`t you have the faith to yourself stop this storm causing you harm?

or

"Why don`t you have faith to stop it all together?"

If he meant the second or even third, then Adam would have had the ability to tap into divine power in order to do good or prevent evil. I`m just coming at this from the theodicy angle. That`s all I care about here.

[TK]

Ian wrote:

When Jesus asked the disciples in the boat, "where is your faith?" was he not implying that they were deficient in something?

Here is the entire Luke passage:

22 Now it happened, on a certain day, that He got into a boat with His disciples. And He said to them, “Let us cross over to the other side of the lake.” And they launched out. 23 But as they sailed He fell asleep. And a windstorm came down on the lake, and they were filling with water, and were in jeopardy. 24 And they came to Him and awoke Him, saying, “Master, Master, we are perishing!”

Then He arose and rebuked the wind and the raging of the water. And they ceased, and there was a calm. 25 But He said to them, “Where is your faith?”

And they were afraid, and marveled, saying to one another, “Who can this be? For He commands even the winds and water, and they obey Him!”

I have often wondered about this; it always struck me as odd that Jesus seemed upset with these men who apparently had a very real fear that they were going to drown. They at least had faith that if they woke Jesus up, He could probably do something to save them. But Jesus told them they lacked faith.

I think it is at least possible that Jesus DID expect that they could have done something about the storm, although I know that this is not the generally accepted interpretation. Most people would say that Jesus told thm they were crossing the other side, and that by gum that was what was going to happen, whether the boat filled up with water and sank or not, and the disciples should have just had faith in that. But under the circumstances, and the way the story reads, that may have been asking a bit much.

TK

[Perry]

...it always struck me as odd that Jesus seemed upset with these men...

It always struck me as a bit humorous. Can't you just see Jesus, yawning, with half lidded eyes, walking out on the deck of the ship, still half asleep, a bit cranky because they just woke him up sighing, rebuking, first the disciples and then the storm, and then turning and shuffling back off to bed, leaving a slack-jawed group of disciples blinking at one another in astonishment.

Lest anyone think I'm being irreverent, that is not at all my intent. It's exactly this kind of view of Christ's humanity that, to me, makes him such an amazing figure.

[TK]

Perry-

That is pretty much how this event is portrayed by Bruce Marchiano in "the book of Matthew" movie.

TK

[backwoodsman]

I suppose he could have meant one of three things:

"Why don't you have the faith that this storm isn't going to hurt you?"
"Why don't you have the faith to yourself stop this storm causing you harm?
"Why don't you have faith to stop it all together?"

If he meant the second or even third, then Adam would have had the ability to tap into divine power in order to do good or prevent evil.

I don't see anything about Adam there, either stated or implied. I see your 2nd and 3rd options as inconsistent with the rest of Jesus' teaching, and the rest of Scripture. So He must've meant something more like the first.

Regarding the original question, I don't suppose there's any harm in speculating a bit if one finds it interesting, and isn't using it as a springboard to some really weird unbiblical ideas, as some do, or letting it become a rabbit trail that distracts from God. But even if Adam had any capabilities significantly beyond ours (which I find unlikely), if God had thought it important for us to know, He would've told us clearly; He wouldn't have hidden it in obscure hints.

[TK]

backwoodsman wrote:

I don't see anything about Adam there, either stated or implied. I see your 2nd and 3rd options as inconsistent with the rest of Jesus' teaching, and the rest of Scripture. So He must've meant something more like the first.

I am not necessarily disagreeing with you, but what do you think the disciples should have done in this scenario?

The waves were coming in, the boat was filling up, presumably as fisherman they knew not much good could come of that. What would a faith-filled reaction in this circumstance look like? In other words, what should they have done so as not to be rebuked by Jesus for their lack of faith? I am curious because I really have never looked at this angle before.

TK

[Perry]

That is pretty much how this event is portrayed by Bruce Marchiano in "the book of Matthew" movie.

Haven't seen that one.

[backwoodsman]

What would a faith-filled reaction in this circumstance look like? In other words, what should they have done so as not to be rebuked by Jesus for their lack of faith?

"This is gonna hurt, but God is taking care of us, and if that means He wants us dead in 3 seconds, He knows better than we do what He's doing."

Jesus said, "Why are you so afraid? How is it that you have no faith?" Not, "Why didn't you calm the storm yourselves?" Of course, any rational person will have some fear in a life-threatening situation; but it's a choice whether to let fear take control, or to trust God through the fear. Jesus' rebuke, I think, was for not trusting God in spite of their natural fear; it certainly wasn't for not calming the storm themselves.

My impression has always been that they woke Jesus expecting Him to do something about the storm. But what if they'd have simply trusted God and remained at peace, and never awakened Jesus?

[psimmond]

backwoodsman said:

"This is gonna hurt, but God is taking care of us, and if that means He wants us dead in 3 seconds, He knows better than we do what He's doing."

Jesus said, "Why are you so afraid? How is it that you have no faith?" Not, "Why didn't you calm the storm yourselves?" Of course, any rational person will have some fear in a life-threatening situation; but it's a choice whether to let fear take control, or to trust God through the fear. Jesus' rebuke, I think, was for not trusting God in spite of their natural fear; it certainly wasn't for not calming the storm themselves.

My impression has always been that they woke Jesus expecting Him to do something about the storm. But what if they'd have simply trusted God and remained at peace, and never awakened Jesus?

I agree completely! I think this is what Jesus was looking for from those in the boat and what he's looking for from us. And tying this back to Adam and Eve, I think prior to sinning, Adam and Eve didn't know the meaning of fear; I don't think there was anything in the world that caused them to feel even slightly afraid. (Of course, lions weren't meat eaters back then )