What is sin?

[benstenson]

I repented of my sinful life and God gave me new life
... hidden in Christ where there is no sin.


I don't know what love is apart from God describing it to me...
...love never fails, which I am unable to do.

Since love is unfailing by definition, and I fail, I find God's Word to be true to my experience...

I want to reply but it seems that you only call logic "hermeneutics" when it fits your view. If logic does not fit your view then it suddenly becomes worldly wisdom, suddenly God's ways (ie. your opinion) is much higher (ie. less accountable to reason) than sound judgment. You exercise partiality in regard to logic based on how you think "the spirit" has led you to interpret the bible. If you would be willing to recognize that this makes it impossible to reason with you, then maybe our communication could turn out to be fruitful. Otherwise you have an infallibility ticket, an Eject button that you can press any time someone refutes your inspired opinion.

[dseusy]

Benstenson,

If I'm ejecting from truth, it would be objectionable.

Love is the greatest commandment of the Bible and you came up with your own definition for it. How can you state that I am "ejecting" when I use God's Word as a filter for truth?

[benstenson]

Benstenson,

If I'm ejecting from truth, it would be objectionable.

Love is the greatest commandment of the Bible and you came up with your own definition for it.

Do you disagree with the definition of love? What about it do you disagree with? You seem to have only advanced the fact that you sin as supposed proof that love must be something impossible. Choosing not to do what is possible does not prove the possible is impossible. That is just a wrong conclusion.

Remember what I said about justice earlier - you said you have a warped concept of justice compared to God. The unspoken implication was that your opinions can't be held accountable to the idea of justice because we may not even know what justice means. Remember? I pointed out how words have a definition otherwise it would mean nothing when we use them. The same is true for love. Love has a universally recognized definition of being good-will, benevolence, willing the best for someone, a commitment to promote their highest well being. The whole world knows this idea and their conscience judges them according to it. What do you take issue with regarding the meaning of love?

How can you state that I am "ejecting" when I use God's Word as a filter for truth?

Everybody follows some thought process voluntarily or involuntarily to interpret what they read. When you say you use the bible as a filter, the filter itself has already been filtered through your own personal interpretation just like everyone else. I have a moral obligation to question what you call the filter of God's word, because you may be totally misunderstanding the bible and therefore applying a totally wrong filter, one that makes you filter out logic and common sense some of the time. Your assumption that your filter is not based on totally flawed interpretation makes it impossible for you to be held accountable to reason. Do you understand? Unless you are willing to judge, scrutinize, test your interpretations that make up your "filter" then you can not possibly be reasoned with. This is true of anyone. Do you understand?

[dseusy]

Benstenson,

I understand what you are stating... however, it seems that you make reason the primary focus, whereas I am promoting that God's Word should be the primary focus. We each draw from it what we are able (which will always be a partial truth in this life... we see in part- 1 Cor. 13:12) but HE is the authority. If we label love as benevolence and base our theology on that definition alone, we miss out on all that it entails and all that is required by God's law. If the Bible is a light and a lamp, we should use scripture to interpret scripture... context, references, and all. God states to love. The world often tells us that love is a feeling. Is this true? How do I find out? What does the Bible state?

"Love is patient, love is kind and is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant, does not act unbecomingly; it does not seek its own, is not provoked, does not take into account a wrong suffered, does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth; bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never fails" 1 Corinthians 13:4-8a

Now I know what love is. It is these things because I believe the Bible states it is so. Whether it makes sense to me or not, I choose to submit myself to it. Whether it is reasonable or not to me doesn't matter because God is not subject to me or my ability to reason. I am subject to God and His reason. I obviously have to use my reason to process His reason, but I cannot lean on my reason- I choose to subject my reason to His when they don't jive. We can get into philosophical circles until we don't believe we even exist, but let's be reasonable (poor taste to use this word here, but I love comedy).

I don't disagree with the definition of love... I just believe we should find it in God's Word.

You stated: "Choosing not to do what is possible does not prove the possible is impossible. That is just a wrong conclusion." Your point makes sense but it doesn't apply to me. I never decided not to do what is possible. I chose to obey God and I failed to do it perfectly as is commanded. So I got up, dusted myself off and tried again. I failed again. I repented of my evil acts, received God's forgiveness through Christ and tried to obey again. I failed again. I began to hate myself- this life. I worked at this for years, and I am not at all communicating that I don't obey God today... however I am communicating that I don't obey Him perfectly. Not because I don't want to... but because I cannot. Anything less than perfect obedience is a pattern of disobedience because:

"For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all." James 2:10

"Therefore, to one who knows the right thing to do and does not do it, to him it is sin." James 4:17

"whatever is not from faith is sin." Romans 14:23b

When I wrote that I have a warped concept of justice compared to God there was no unspoken implication that had anything to do with the definition of justice. You may have picked this up, but I meant nothing in relation to your tacit receipt of it. What I was trying to communicate was that my understanding of justice (not the definition but the embodiment of all that justice entails... what is just vs. what is unjust, not "what does the word justice mean?") pails in comparison to God's understanding of justice. I only know a little bit about what is truly just because God gave it to us in His law.

Universally recognized definitions are often wrong. Not because I say so, but because when I compare what people say to what is clearly written in the Bible- there are often differences.

For example: What is sin? The Bible clearly states that sin is lawlessness. No more, no less. Is there a universally recognized definition for sin? I don't think the universe likes to talk about it
What is love? the Bible clearly defines love in 1 Corinthians 13. If we give it a blanket definition from our understanding of lumping all that love is into a concise human definition- we lose the value of the detail that God gave the word love in His Word.

I'm not trying to be difficult, and I realize that love is benevolent but it is so much more. God is love and He doesn't expire after benevolence. He NEVER fails. He has commanded us to never fail to be benevolent. Have you ever failed at this? If you have then you have slipped off the narrow path, onto the broad path that leads to destruction. Better make sure that never happens again. Destruction is always lurking at our door. I am getting sarcastic here to make a point.

I gave my life to walk this narrow path. To live under God's laws and become righteous because I so long for His favor which surrounds the righteous like a shield (Psalm 5:12). I found that as I focused on myself and considered my ways under God's commands, I was constantly slipping off the narrow path. Not because of a lack of effort, but because I am wicked.

So, do I only get God's favor when I make myself righteous? Seems kind of funny that He would die for me while I was still a sinner (Romans 5:8), but now that I'm in the family I have to perfect myself to stay a member. Doesn't seem to mesh with the picture the story of the prodigal son paints.

What about:

"But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe." Romans 3

"Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God" 1 John 5

"These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life." 1 John 5

"and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith" Philippians 3

"Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith." Galatians 3

"Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God." Romans 3

"I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain." Galatians 2



I get God's favor because He knocked at the door of my heart, asked to come in and eat with me... I opened the door (with His assistance and enabling) and He came in to eat with me and me with Him (Revelation 3).

I am righteous because He credited it to me and I received it (Romans 4:6). He offers us all favor. Will we accept it or will we shun it in our pride to earn it? Every world religion is prideful... even much of "Christianity" today- except for the simplicity of the pure Gospel. Good news that is truly good- that God loved us and gave His Son for us, that if we BELIEVE we shall HAVE eternal life.


Benstenson, I believe you should question what I call the filter of God's word because I may be totally misunderstanding the Bible and therefore applying a totally wrong filter, one that makes me filter out logic and common sense some of the time. I believe you should hear me out and then go straight to God to see what He is telling you.

"Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so." Acts 17:11

My assumption that my filter is not based on totally flawed interpretation does make it impossible for me to be reasoned out of what I have found to be true and am fully convinced of after years of applying God's Word to my life in the context of the accountability of many Christians across a few states and denominations (or non-denominations ). I am willing to judge, scrutinize, and test my interpretations as God's Word reveals my errors. I understand what you wrote.

[dseusy]

"And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God." 1 John 5

"Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?" 1 John 5:5

We overcome the world by faith in Jesus Christ and sin no longer has hold over that part of us which is in Christ and which is born again.

"Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.'"
John 3:5-7

"Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption." 1 Corinthians 15:50

"For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places."
Ephesians 6:12

"For we are the circumcision, who worship God in the Spirit, rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh" Philippians 3:3

"There is also an antitype which now saves us--baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ"
1 Peter 3:21

[Michelle]

Hi dseusy, I haven't followed this thread closely, so forgive me (and point the way) if you've already addressed this. You said:

We overcome the world by faith in Jesus Christ and sin no longer has hold over that part of us which is in Christ and which is born again.

What part of us is in Christ? What part is not in Christ?

[dseusy]

Michelle,

Great question...

"Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.'"
John 3:5-7

"It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life."
John 6:63

When I am born again (new spiritual life) my new spirit is in Christ, as my life is hidden in him:

"For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God." Colossians 3:3

My flesh didn't die. My spirit died and then I was given new spiritual life which is hidden with Christ in God.

There is no sin in Christ:

"And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin." 1 John 3:5

That part of me which is a new creation (my spirit) is in Christ, but any part of me which still sins cannot be in Christ because there is no sin in Him:

"Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new. " 2 Corinthians 5:17

I know that in my flesh ALL things have not become new, because I still have old things which pop up now and again. Additionally, the flesh is weak (Matthew 26:41, Mark 14:38), I cannot perfect it, and it continually lusts against the Spirit. My flesh is not in Christ. If it were, as soon as I sinned it wouldn't be. I don't believe that something that lusts against God can be in God, where there is no lust.

I drew a picture here: http://www.lovnmercy.blogspot.com to help me have a visual picture to go with scripture on this subject. There are 3 blogs, and it may be beneficial to start with the oldest first.

Here are some more related verses...


"Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?"
Galatians 3:3

"For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish."
Galatians 5:17

"For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places."
Ephesians 6:12

"For we are the circumcision, who worship God in the Spirit, rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh" Philippians 3:3

God's Word divides between what is of the flesh from what is of the spiritual.

"For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart." Hebrews 4:12

[Michelle]

Thank you, dseusy. I read your blog posts, most of which you've repeated here in various places. I like the way you highlighted words to match your diagram, however. That really helped to illustrate your message.

I have a question that is probably tangential: What do you believe about the resurrection of the dead?

[dseusy]

Michelle,

I believe there will be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and the unjust and that Jesus Christ was resurrected from the dead. Were you looking for more than this?

“But concerning the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was spoken to you by God, saying, 32 'I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.’ 33 And when the multitudes heard this, they were astonished at His teaching.” Matthew 22:31-33

“Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, 31 because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead." Acts 17:30, 31

“I have hope in God, which they themselves also accept, that there will be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and the unjust. 16 This being so, I myself always strive to have a conscience without offense toward God and men.” Acts 24:15, 16

“Paul, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated to the gospel of God 2 which He promised before through His prophets in the Holy Scriptures, 3 concerning His Son Jesus Christ our Lord, who was born of the seed of David according to the flesh, 4 and declared to be the Son of God with power according to the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead. 5 Through Him we have received grace and apostleship for obedience to the faith among all nations for His name, 6 among whom you also are the called of Jesus Christ” Romans 1:1-6

“Now if Christ is preached that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ is not risen. 14 And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty and your faith is also empty. 15 Yes, and we are found false witnesses of God, because we have testified of God that He raised up Christ, whom He did not raise up--if in fact the dead do not rise. 16 For if the dead do not rise, then Christ is not risen. 17 And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins! 18 Then also those who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. 19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men the most pitiable. 20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming. 24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death.”
1 Corinthians 15:12-26
“There is one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differs from another star in glory. 42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. 43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. 44 It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45 And so it is written, ‘The first man Adam became a living being.’ The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the earth, made of dust; the second Man is the Lord from heaven. 48 As was the man of dust, so also are those who are made of dust; and as is the heavenly Man, so also are those who are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man. 50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed-- 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: ‘Death is swallowed up in victory.’” 1 Corinthians 15:41-54

“Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, 2 of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. 3 And this we will do if God permits.” Hebrews 6:1-3

“Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.”
1 Peter 1:3-5

[Michelle]

Michelle,

I believe there will be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and the unjust and that Jesus Christ was resurrected from the dead. Were you looking for more than this?

Thanks again, dseusy. I was wondering if you believed we would be raised with material, yet glorified bodies (like Jesus') and if these bodies would be without the flesh that sins.