What is my responsibility as a Christian?

dseusy
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Re: What is my responsibility as a Christian?

Post by dseusy » Sat Jun 11, 2011 12:01 am

Homer,

I believe Jesus' commands are more than principles. I believe Matthew 5 and John 15, among others, make this clear. They "are to" be obeyed. However, His applied commands are in place to lead us to His mercy. If we lessen the standard of righteousness, we lessen the value of Jesus' death and the joy of our salvation.

Your "Salem" example makes sense, but I think instead of changing the command, we should carefully consider it's application per Biblical context. Jesus stated His commands plainly, whereas if we were talking about a parable, I might agree with you.

dseusy
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Re: What is my responsibility as a Christian?

Post by dseusy » Sat Jun 11, 2011 1:22 am

Steve,

If you live under the law, you are accountable.

In my effort to follow Christ, I strove to be a "responsible" Christian. What I discovered is that I am a wretched "Christian". My love for Christ must be pathetic because I struggle to love those closest to me. If I loved them as Christ loves me, I would never fail to love unconditionally and give my life up for them. My "responsibility" showed me that I still need a saviour, and there is no righteousness I can add to what Christ gave me. I haven't given up... I continue in my faith (and HIS Spirit bears fruit), but I am still a clay pot (made of dirt) (Psalm 103) so I don't forget it's all from Him (2 Corinthians 4:7).

I propose we should write down all of Jesus' commands on a piece of paper and hang it prominently in our homes. Then I propose that we keep a daily journal of how we did each day.

Breaking a command of Jesus is a sin. If, while browsing over our journal we note an "irresponsibility" to one of Jesus' commands, we should consider this sin. What do we do with it? What can we do to make it go away? Can we decide to do better tomorrow to make it dissapear? If we have more good deeds than bad ones does it cancel the sin out?

We are accountable for our sin, until we trust Christ and He willingly becomes liable.

My only answer to the righteous Judge will be, "Christ!".

If you want to be responsible, that is your choice. The more attention I paid to God's commands/His laws and the more I applied them, the more scared I became of being responsible.

dseusy
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Re: What is my responsibility as a Christian?

Post by dseusy » Sat Jun 11, 2011 1:48 am

Steve7150,

Concerning your two most recent posts to this one:

Fruit is fruit so long as it is from Him. If it is from us, it ceases to be His, and we will find ourselves battling with the flesh.

I don't at all discount the emphasis from the Bible concerning works. They lead us to Christ, but let's not add them on top of Him. It would be shame to cover His glory in rags. Let's rest in Him and allow our light (HIM) to shine.

Steve7150, you have some great points and I agree with a lot of what you write... I think, when we consider interpreting the Bible, we would do well to consider a couple of things. One is that God's Word is spiritually discerned, so we don't lean on our own understanding (1 Corinthians 2:14, Proverbs 3:5). Another is considering which type of literature we are about to interpret... whether it is a word of wisdom, a parable, poetry, etc. We don't take symbolic writing literally, nor should we interpret a command as though it were a parable.

When Jesus stated that we must hate our mother if we want to follow Him, He was speaking spiritual words. I believe He was communicating to hate the same thing Paul hated in Romans 7- the flesh is wretched... we should hate this life of wretchedness... of sin. A mother is a fleshly relationship in this life. We can hate the flesh and love the sister in Christ at the same time.

Concerning cutting off limbs... what Jesus said was true. And you will likely stop sinning before you cut anything off. When I state, "stop sinning", I am not talking about preventing the sin of the flesh.

dseusy
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Re: What is my responsibility as a Christian?

Post by dseusy » Sat Jun 11, 2011 2:05 am

Amyfree,

I agree with you, that if we purposely sin, God will see through our fake faith. As far as stopping sin goes, I haven't been very successful (in God's sight). However, God did show me a way to have sin taken care of.

Hebrews 9:28
1 John 3:5

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Paidion
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Re: What is my responsibility as a Christian?

Post by Paidion » Sat Jun 11, 2011 10:28 am

Thanks, dseusy. I appreciate where you are compared to what you were in respect to striving to please Him.

Yet, it seems to me that neither one nor the other in itself succeeds. That is, as you indicate, our self-effort will fail. On the other hand if we just try to let God do the works, using us and moving us as a hand does a glove, He won't do so. For that is not the way He operates.

For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God. Working together with him, then, we appeal to you not to receive the grace of God in vain. II Corinthians 5:21, 6:1 ESV

In order therefore to appropriate the enabling grace of God described in Titus 2, we need to "work together with Him." If we "receive the grace of God in vain", we are still unable to overcome wrongdoing and work righteousness.
Paidion

Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.

Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.

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TK
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Re: What is my responsibility as a Christian?

Post by TK » Sat Jun 11, 2011 11:34 am

dseusy wrote:
I propose we should write down all of Jesus' commands on a piece of paper and hang it prominently in our homes. Then I propose that we keep a daily journal of how we did each day
I started writing down the commands (and strong suggestions) of Jesus a few years ago- i just pulled out the journal I used--- on steno pad size pages, handwritten and single spaced, they take up 5 pages just through Matthew and Mark (i did not duplicate parallel statements). I will need to finish up Luke and John- and of course there are some commands records in Acts and Revelation as well.

TK

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steve
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Re: What is my responsibility as a Christian?

Post by steve » Sat Jun 11, 2011 11:39 am

TK,

I am not sure if you realized that dseusy's suggestion was made in sarcasm. While it is a good suggestion, he thinks the doing of it would be motivated by a wrong understanding of Christian responsibility.


dseusy,

I hope this may be my last response to you, since I cannot understand anything you are saying, and you do not seem to pay any attention to the points and the scriptures I present for your consideration.
Steve,

If you live under the law, you are accountable.
Yes. And if you live under Christ, you are accountable also. You completely ignored the scriptures I sent you about "giving account" to God (that means "accountability"). Those passages have nothing to do with living under the Law. At least the latter two of the three are indisputably about Christians. You do not understand grace or responsibility, so it seems that we speak past each other.
In my effort to follow Christ, I strove to be a "responsible" Christian. What I discovered is that I am a wretched "Christian". My love for Christ must be pathetic because I struggle to love those closest to me. If I loved them as Christ loves me, I would never fail to love unconditionally and give my life up for them. My "responsibility" showed me that I still need a saviour, and there is no righteousness I can add to what Christ gave me. I haven't given up... I continue in my faith (and HIS Spirit bears fruit), but I am still a clay pot (made of dirt) (Psalm 103) so I don't forget it's all from Him (2 Corinthians 4:7).
This is a testimony common to many of us. But how does it argue against having a responsibility to obey Christ? If you understood grace, you would know that you don't have to deny your responsibilities in order to avoid condemnation. Wherever there are commands from a legitimate authority, there is responsibility to obey. This fact in itself is not a predictor of obedience. A command is prescriptive, not descriptive. When one has a responsibility, that means there is something that he ought to do, or should do. There are many things that Christians should do, as your posts seem to acknowledge. You simply are refusing to connect the "should" with the word "responsibility." But one is the definition of the other, which is what makes your posts so confusing (I had almost said maddening).
I propose we should write down all of Jesus' commands on a piece of paper and hang it prominently in our homes. Then I propose that we keep a daily journal of how we did each day.
No, you don't. You are being sarcastic. However, if someone really could not remember what Jesus told them to do, it would not be a bad idea to write it down, since keeping His words is the definition of being His disciple (John 8:31), and failing to do what He said is the definition of being a "foolish man" (Matt.7:26). (I am pretty sure you won't look these verses up, since you have ignored every other verse I have presented—which is the primary reason that continuing to dialogue with you does not seem fruitful).
Breaking a command of Jesus is a sin. If, while browsing over our journal we note an "irresponsibility" to one of Jesus' commands, we should consider this sin. What do we do with it? What can we do to make it go away? Can we decide to do better tomorrow to make it dissapear? If we have more good deeds than bad ones does it cancel the sin out?
There is no better paragraph in all of your posts than this one to demonstrate what I said about you not understanding "grace" or "responsibility." Of course breaking a command is a sin. Is that fact disputed?

"What do we do with it?" Are you a Christian? Do you lack this most basic knowledge of what to do with sin? When we sin, we confess our sins and receive forgiveness (1 John 1:9; 2:1-2). Has anyone ever shared the Gospel with you?

"If...we note an 'irresponsibility' to one of Jesus' commands..." Here you show that you don't know what the word "responsibility" means. We often identify the meaning of a word by contrasting it with its opposite, which you have attempted to do in this sentence. Since "responsibility" is the key word in your original post, and the word that all of us have been responding to, we need to get this confusion resolved.

You think of "a responsibility" as the opposite of "an irresponsibility." The way the second word is constructed gives the impression that it is simply the negation of the first. This is not how the language works, in this case. These two nouns, though opposite, are not equal. They function differently from each other.

It is sensible to speak of "a responsibility" (meaning "a duty"). To get the exact opposite of this word, you would have to coin some term like "non-responsibility." Therefore, if I was supposed to wash the dishes each evening, then washing the dishes would be my responsibility. If it was someone else's job, and not mine, one could refer to dishwashing as a non-responsibility of mine (though the actual word does not exist, to my knowledge, it would be understandable to all). One might say, "Washing the dishes is not my responsibility," but no one would say, "Washing the dishes is my irresponsibility."

In your paragraph, above, the awkward phrase, "an irresponsibility to one of Jesus' commands," seems to equate "an irresponsibility" with "a violation." Thus, you are apparently thinking the word "responsibility" (which has been used throughout this thread) means "compliance" (the opposite of "violation"). Violation and compliance are opposite responses to a command, and you think that "an irresponsibility" is an act of violation, so (in your usage) "a responsibility" must mean an act of compliance.

But responsibility speaks of duty; compliance speaks of performance of that duty. They are not the same thing. When I have been saying we have a responsibility to obey Christ, I have not been saying that we actually always fulfill that responsibility properly. Responsibility speaks of what we should do. Performance describes what actually happens.
We are accountable for our sin, until we trust Christ and He willingly becomes liable.

My only answer to the righteous Judge will be, "Christ!".
This is true. But what do you need Christ for, if you have no responsibility? When you stand before the judge, and He says, "Why did you violate my laws?" why not just say, "It wasn't my responsibility!"? If you are correct, He can't condemn you, and you need no Advocate in Christ. Christ is only needed as an Advocate for guilty sinners. Without responsibility, there is no guilt, and no need for Christ's propitiation (1 John 2:1-2).
If you want to be responsible, that is your choice. The more attention I paid to God's commands/His laws and the more I applied them, the more scared I became of being responsible.
Your posts seem to acknowledge repeatedly that there are things that Christians should do, which is why it has been perplexing to hear you deny responsibility. I now see that you have mistaken this whole discussion to be about performance, and you apparently are completely lacking in any understanding of what grace is. You seem to think that having a responsibility means that either you comply or you are condemned. Since you have found that you do not always comply, and since you cannot stand the thought of condemnation, you know only one solution : deny all responsibility.

The Bible teaches a different solution to the problem. It acknowledges that we do not always comply with our duties, but the solution is not to pretend that no duties exist, but to bring in the grace of God. God is gracious, and forgives sin (where there is no duty, or responsibility, there is no sin to forgive). You seek to avoid condemnation by pretending there is no duty (hence, no sin). The Bible says we acknowledge our sin (or breach of duty) and we receive forgiveness from God.

Someday, I hope, you will get a revelation of the grace of God, and it will set you free from your terrified denial of responsibility.

Amyfree
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Re: What is my responsibility as a Christian?

Post by Amyfree » Sat Jun 11, 2011 4:21 pm

Dseusy, I never said "sin should be taken care of." In my opinion, the care organization now is global medical and most people should try to avoid that. I saw the movie on television back in 2001 - pretty ungodly.

dseusy
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Re: What is my responsibility as a Christian?

Post by dseusy » Sat Jun 11, 2011 5:46 pm

Paidion,

I feel like we are tools, as we allow Him to use us... I could be the most effective glove as one who holds my hands open- receiving His love, and being so full of it that it naturally pours out, or spills over. When I am weak, I am strong- as His strength accomplishes its work in me. I agree that He doesn't force our use, and we certainly participate- only our participation is as a life hidden in Christ, living this life by faith, and continuing in Him. His power works best in weakness. I overcame wrongdoing at spiritual conception, and now He works righteousness and I get to participate. Are we saying the same thing, or do you feel we have to "do our part" (more than faith) to overcome wrongdoing and work righteousness?

dseusy
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Re: What is my responsibility as a Christian?

Post by dseusy » Sat Jun 11, 2011 5:50 pm

TK,

Understanding what Jesus commands and giving importance to this as you are doing is following the Lord as He has told us. We are to uphold His commands and retain them, guard them- effectually: keep them.

I would be very interested to see how God leads you and what He teaches you as you finish this.

God bless,

dseusy

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