I wondered if any of you would be willing to share some of your experience with the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. I think in Steve G's series on spiritual gifts He mentions briefly some of his experience but I've been studying, praying and reading on this for many years and kind of go back and forth. My favorite bible teachers seem split on the subject as far as whether baptism is a separate experience from the Spirit's presence at the moment of regeneration or not...as of now I believe it is. Scripture and church history seems to be full of examples of it.
My dilemma is determining whether or not I have this baptism. I definitely have had intimate times where I've felt His presence, and seen Him working through me but I can't help wondering if I've truly been baptized. The only reason it concerns me is because I truly want His power to run my life and ministry so that it's His work. I know the level I allow Him to sanctify me affects that as well...I see the difference in my effectiveness related to how serious I'm taking prayer, obedience and setting things in my life apart.
I guess here's what i find confusing. Whenever I read the biblical passages in the NT referring to the Holy Spirit, it sounds like such an undeniable thing. I can't deny that He's been active in my life, but I find it hard to see a moment or undeniable fruit that I've been baptized and even struggle a bit to know what it means for my Spirit to cry 'abba' Father. I know lots of people that love the Lord and His word and believe in the Holy Spirit, but haven't hardly ever met someone I could even undeniably define as being 'Filled with the Holy Spirit.' The only man I've met who it seemed undeniable on was Brother Yun from the Chinese church. I wanted to ask Him for prayer or thoughts on the matter but He doesn't speak english and it wasn't a good time for the translator.
Ultimately, I believe that if we ask with faith, Jesus said the Father loves to give us the Spirit...so I'm trying to exercise my faith towards the confidence that He has baptized me or will show me and lead me towards that if I need to. Anyways, just hungry to know and would love to hear anything from your word or experience that may help me be corrected in my thinking or spurred on or whatever.
Thanks,
isaac
Results of Baptism with the Spirit
Re: Results of Baptism with the Spirit
Hello Isaac,
I'm not sure how helpful it will be, but I will share some of my experience.
I was brought up in a pentecostal church, so of course I desired to be baptised in the Spirit, which I also believe is a separate experience to the initial involvement of the Spirit at conversion.
I remember as a teenager going forward at church alter calls to 'receive the baptism' on numerous occasions, with seemingly no success (I think we were taught that speaking in tongues would be the initial evidence).
I also at one stage went away on a private retreat, specifically to pray for this, again not having the evidence of speaking in tongues, so that I became discouraged; whereupon the pastor's wife advised me to relax, and allow God to work in his own timing.
I don't know what the deal was there – whether I was seeking this gift from wrong motives, or whether I was in fact baptised in the Spirit without having the particular gift of speaking in tongues (or other obvious clearly seen evidence) at that time.
I (together with others) later received the gift of speaking in tongues when we had a visiting speaker who had the gift of praying & laying on of hands for the baptism.
I definitely find being able to pray in the Spirit invaluable, but believe that the command to “be filled with the Spirit” is an ongoing thing - I've heard the original has the connotation of 'keep on being filled' – and that the gifts of the Spirit vary in individuals and/or at different times according to God's will (as in 1 Cor: 12).
I agree with you that a big factor in the equation may be how co-operative we are being in our own sanctification process, and how quick we are in our response in obedience to His voice.
I'm not sure how helpful it will be, but I will share some of my experience.
I was brought up in a pentecostal church, so of course I desired to be baptised in the Spirit, which I also believe is a separate experience to the initial involvement of the Spirit at conversion.
I remember as a teenager going forward at church alter calls to 'receive the baptism' on numerous occasions, with seemingly no success (I think we were taught that speaking in tongues would be the initial evidence).
I also at one stage went away on a private retreat, specifically to pray for this, again not having the evidence of speaking in tongues, so that I became discouraged; whereupon the pastor's wife advised me to relax, and allow God to work in his own timing.
I don't know what the deal was there – whether I was seeking this gift from wrong motives, or whether I was in fact baptised in the Spirit without having the particular gift of speaking in tongues (or other obvious clearly seen evidence) at that time.
I (together with others) later received the gift of speaking in tongues when we had a visiting speaker who had the gift of praying & laying on of hands for the baptism.
I definitely find being able to pray in the Spirit invaluable, but believe that the command to “be filled with the Spirit” is an ongoing thing - I've heard the original has the connotation of 'keep on being filled' – and that the gifts of the Spirit vary in individuals and/or at different times according to God's will (as in 1 Cor: 12).
I agree with you that a big factor in the equation may be how co-operative we are being in our own sanctification process, and how quick we are in our response in obedience to His voice.
Suzana
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If a man cannot be a Christian in the place he is, he cannot be a Christian anywhere. - Henry Ward Beecher
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If a man cannot be a Christian in the place he is, he cannot be a Christian anywhere. - Henry Ward Beecher
Re: Results of Baptism with the Spirit
Thanks for sharing Suzana. Yeah, I've also 'gone forward' many years ago in a service to receive the Baptism and tongues but not with result (at least the tongues.) The tongues thing doesn't bother me so much because I believe it's just one of the gifts of the Spirit (although a very common manifestation in the book of acts at times of Baptism.) I believe it is the Spirit that distributes the gifts in His wisdom for the building up of the body so He can extend His grace through me however He likes.
I believe so much ministry is done in the flesh rather than by the power of the Spirit (at least in much of the western churches). It seems we always swing to the extremes of seeking experience with the Spirit without letting it be defined by the word, or seek the word without more than the doctrinal mentions of the Holy Spirit. I want to see God move in His churches here in such a way where the credit can only be given to Him, and where we walk by the Spirit and in obedience to the word. If Jesus didn't want His disciples to continue forward with the great commission without first making sure they were 'clothed with power' from God, I want to be sure I'm not trying to carry out His work without His power.
Again, it's hard to know what this really looks like because we feel so far from what we read in the early church.
I believe so much ministry is done in the flesh rather than by the power of the Spirit (at least in much of the western churches). It seems we always swing to the extremes of seeking experience with the Spirit without letting it be defined by the word, or seek the word without more than the doctrinal mentions of the Holy Spirit. I want to see God move in His churches here in such a way where the credit can only be given to Him, and where we walk by the Spirit and in obedience to the word. If Jesus didn't want His disciples to continue forward with the great commission without first making sure they were 'clothed with power' from God, I want to be sure I'm not trying to carry out His work without His power.
Again, it's hard to know what this really looks like because we feel so far from what we read in the early church.
Re: Results of Baptism with the Spirit
I know lots of people that love the Lord and His word and believe in the Holy Spirit, but haven't hardly ever met someone I could even undeniably define as being 'Filled with the Holy Spirit.' The only man I've met who it seemed undeniable on was Brother Yun from the Chinese church.
IMO we tend to look for God to move and we tend to look for natural evidence of a move from God yet i think God has already given us his grace through Christ but we often don't receive it.
In John 6.35 Jesus said we will "never hunger and never thirst" which he also essentially said to the women at the well in John 4 , yet we seem to thirst. In Eph 1.17 Paul did'nt pray for God to make a move instead he prayed that God "may give you a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of him."
In John 1 he says that grace and truth came through Jesus , therefore it already came to the believer yet we don't perceive it, therefore we must be relying on our natural senses. So IMO it starts with just believing we have his grace and Spirit and thanking him for it every day because acknowledging his grace i think is very important to us and to God. IMO when we acknowledge and thank him every day for his grace and Spirit it reminds us in our own mind and spirit and activates God's grace.
I can't prove it but i do believe this.
IMO we tend to look for God to move and we tend to look for natural evidence of a move from God yet i think God has already given us his grace through Christ but we often don't receive it.
In John 6.35 Jesus said we will "never hunger and never thirst" which he also essentially said to the women at the well in John 4 , yet we seem to thirst. In Eph 1.17 Paul did'nt pray for God to make a move instead he prayed that God "may give you a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of him."
In John 1 he says that grace and truth came through Jesus , therefore it already came to the believer yet we don't perceive it, therefore we must be relying on our natural senses. So IMO it starts with just believing we have his grace and Spirit and thanking him for it every day because acknowledging his grace i think is very important to us and to God. IMO when we acknowledge and thank him every day for his grace and Spirit it reminds us in our own mind and spirit and activates God's grace.
I can't prove it but i do believe this.
Re: Results of Baptism with the Spirit
In regards to the "tongues" aspect of this- i struggled for a long time. The reason is that I expected that that upon receipt of the baptism that this new language would suddenly just "bubble up" and spew from my mouth, almost uncontrollably. (I was largely self-taught in this area, as i grew up in a baptist church and the other churches i have attended have not stressed charismatic things.)
then i heard a very clear teaching that explained that in order to speak in tongues, you actually had to begin speaking in tongues. in other words, that it was not just an "automatic" experience.
I suspect this is why many people, from non-charismatic backgrounds may not experience the gift of tongues- because they have a mis-conception as to how it is bestowed. of course i do believe that the gift can be given in the "bubble up" fashion (i suspect some of the Acts episodes were like this) i suspect that this may not be the normal or average means.
TK
then i heard a very clear teaching that explained that in order to speak in tongues, you actually had to begin speaking in tongues. in other words, that it was not just an "automatic" experience.
I suspect this is why many people, from non-charismatic backgrounds may not experience the gift of tongues- because they have a mis-conception as to how it is bestowed. of course i do believe that the gift can be given in the "bubble up" fashion (i suspect some of the Acts episodes were like this) i suspect that this may not be the normal or average means.
TK