the handicapped

[Ian]

I don`t dispute Steve`s proposition that this world is a testing ground. But is it only that? As Steve knows, I drive handicapped children to and from "school" every day here in Switzerland. For many of these children, life cannot possibly constitute a test. Many of them are too mentally retarded to grasp concepts like "the wages of sin is death" and how to respond to the offer of rescue from the human predicament. They could no more respond than I could tunnel through to Australia. What is to become of them? And of their sometimes bitter parents, saddled with an emotional and financial burden for the rest of their lives? My youngest brother has twin daughters with Angelman`s Syndrome, so I`ll lump him in with them too. They will never talk and never walk. Questions, questions, as ever!

[TK]

i think i will sit back and watch the replies on this one.

my only thought, initially, is that perhaps the "test" is not for the handicapped persons themselves, but for us Christians. After all, we have to deal with the very issues you have raised.

TK

[Ian]

I do recognize that it is starting with the wrong spirit to put "God in the dock" over this. I am less shy about putting Man`s theology in the dock though.
As to the kids themselves, the more retarded ones often live happier lives than the rest of us do, as they are care-free by comparison. Probably it`s their parents that I feel the most compassion for. That said, the question still remains, what is God going to do with them from an eternal perspective? Does the child go to heaven because it cannot choose, and the parent goes to hell because he rebelled? But the parent cared for that child!
I`m probably expecting too much that anyone could answer this. We haven`t been told. But it`s one of those things that makes me inclusive-minded, with mock-apologies to Fred Phelps types.

[Ian]

with mock-apologies to Fred Phelps types.

Sheesh, why did I write that?
No one here comes remotely close to him, thank goodness.

[steve7150]

As to the kids themselves, the more retarded ones often live happier lives than the rest of us do, as they are care-free by comparison. Probably it`s their parents that I feel the most compassion for. That said, the question still remains, what is God going to do with them from an eternal perspective? Does the child go to heaven because it cannot choose, and the parent goes to hell because he rebelled? But the parent cared for that child!




No one really knows for sure so speaking for myself i focus on God's revealed charactor which is "love" and his attributes of justice,mercy and faithfullness.
Jesus said about children "such as these is the kingdom of heaven" and David believed he would see his son in heaven so i agree with them. As for their parents my belief is that scripture does not just give two options of eternal heaven or hell therefore i would again rely on God's charactor and his revealed will.

[Ian]

It`s just conjecture but I wonder whether, in the same way that a believing wife`s faith is beneficial to her unbelieving husband, that the innocence of the retarded child has a benefit (I`m talking before God, where it counts most) to the unbelieving carer-parent. But maybe I`m in cloud-cuckoo land, I don`t know.

[Ian]

This question reared itself in my head again this evening. My wife came home from work and asked me if I had heard the news, and then sat down at the mealtable with goosebumps on her forearms. Yesterday, not far from us, an 8-year old girl returned home from school with her friend. Having working parents she had been given a house key on a leash to wear around her neck during the day. For some reason she opened the up-and-over garage door, but the leash caught on the handle, lifted her light weight off the ground and strangled her in front of her hapless friend.

This is not a question about suffering though, but related to the issue I brought up here. I know that Steve subscribes to the idea of "the age of accountability", supported I understand by one or two verses in the Old Testament. Accordingly this 8-year old is presumably in a good place now? But, let`s assume her parents are not Christians and remain not, what of them?
What if, given their chance of hearing a fair presentation on the Gospel (not a given here in Switzerland), they reject it (perhaps out of God-directed bitterness)? At best annihilation? But they raised that child, and, likely as not, will grieve and feel guilty for the rest of their lives over what happened. These two different eternal fates seem morally untenable to me but this scenario seems required by the doctrine of Arminianism (and of Calvinism in any case).

I know (and am biased towards) what you think, Steve7150. I would be grateful if instead an Arminianist would take the time to try to answer.

[TK]

Hi Ian-

I suspect you arent getting many responses because there aren't many answers that don't sound dumb.

I know that God is good, all the time. I know this intellectually, because the Bible tells me so- but when faced with the scenario described above, my tendency is to simply shake my head and move on and pretend I just didn't read that.

A very popular current worship song has the lines:

"Your love never fails, it never gives up, it never runs out on me." I love that song and sing it with gusto quite often because it is stuck in my head.

The cynic would say, applying these words to the strangled little girl and her parents, that His love DID fail, His love DID give up and quite frankly DID run out on them. And of course there are countless millions in this world for whom these lyrics simply don't ring true.

I can state with my mind that God had nothing to do with what happened and that in this instance the devil won the day. But then, as Steve G reminds us, even if God is not to blame, He certainly could have intervened. Or could He? Is there something about the nature of God that we just don't understand, which results in these embarrassing questions like "How could a good God allow an innocent little girl be strangled in such a freak accident?"

Like I said, all this speculation really doesn't do any good because there are no satisfactory answers. There just aren't any, no matter what spin we try to place on it.

So I am left with determining, by faith, that God is good, all the time, and I just have to allow these difficult dilemmas to "float out there" and allow them to just be, because my pea brain cant comprehend how this all works.

TK

[Ian]

Thank you TK for your response, thoughtfully empathetic as ever. Problem is, I sometimes don`t know what my gospel is, what I should present to people. But some people, by placing themselves in camps, "I`m an Arminianist", for example, make out otherwise. And I have difficulty with that. Intelligent Design and the Atonement Work of Jesus are hills to die on. But some of the other theological stances are not, in my opinion.

[Wendy777]

I don`t dispute Steve`s proposition that this world is a testing ground. But is it only that? As Steve knows, I drive handicapped children to and from "school" every day here in Switzerland. For many of these children, life cannot possibly constitute a test. Many of them are too mentally retarded to grasp concepts like "the wages of sin is death" and how to respond to the offer of rescue from the human predicament. They could no more respond than I could tunnel through to Australia. What is to become of them?

I too wonder about this because I have two young boys that are mentally disabled. They both have moderate to severe autism. I try to teach them about the Lord but I wonder if I am getting through to them.