What are we to make of the Haiti earthquake?

[Roy]

In all due respect, we should remember that Pat is a 79 year old man, and maybe just a bit forgetful due to his age. The pact with the devil has some truth to it, and some make believe to it. The leaders of the revolt against the french were voodoo worshipers and they held a ceremony to bless them in their decision to revolt. At that time there were also many catholic priest there converting the Haitians. Pat might have chosen the wrong word "pact" which is very easy to understand.

Pats' actual statement:

“...something happened a long time ago in Haiti, and people might not want to talk about it. They were under the heel of the French. You know, Napoleon III and whatever. And they got together and swore a pact to the devil. They said, “We will serve you if you will get us free from the French.” True story. And so, the devil said, “OK, it’s a deal.” And they kicked the French out. You know, the Haitians revolted and got themselves free. But ever since, they have been cursed by one thing after the other. Desperately poor.”

“That island of Hispaniola is one island. It’s cut down the middle. On the one side is Haiti; on the other side is the Dominican Republic. Dominican Republic is prosperous, healthy, full of resorts, et cetera. Haiti is in desperate poverty. Same island. They need to have and we need to pray for them a great turning to God. And out of this tragedy, I’m optimistic something good may come. But right now, we’re helping the suffering people, and the suffering is unimaginable.”


There is not any condemnation here, just reciting some sloppy history story. The last sentence should have gotten the media attention.

Back to him being forgetful. 1983, 850 churches and a score of the then leading Christian personality's ( Pat was one)gathered on the same date that this voodoo ceremony took place in 1791 and walked around Haiti and prayed and consecrated Haiti as the lord's. Haiti today has more Christians then the small minority that worship voodoo.

note: I too was upset at first with the statement, until I blocked out the media and looked into the whole story.

[selah]

Pats' actual statement:

“...something happened a long time ago in Haiti, and people might not want to talk about it. They were under the heel of the French. You know, Napoleon III and whatever. And they got together and swore a pact to the devil. They said, “We will serve you if you will get us free from the French.” True story. And so, the devil said, “OK, it’s a deal.” And they kicked the French out. You know, the Haitians revolted and got themselves free. But ever since, they have been cursed by one thing after the other. Desperately poor.”

“That island of Hispaniola is one island. It’s cut down the middle. On the one side is Haiti; on the other side is the Dominican Republic. Dominican Republic is prosperous, healthy, full of resorts, et cetera. Haiti is in desperate poverty. Same island. They need to have and we need to pray for them a great turning to God. And out of this tragedy, I’m optimistic something good may come. But right now, we’re helping the suffering people, and the suffering is unimaginable.”


There is not any condemnation here, just reciting some sloppy history story. The last sentence should have gotten the media attention.

The words don't look offensive and since I don't watch his show anymore, did you hear him sound disrespectful or condescending? Maybe people misread his body language or the tone in his voice.

Back to him being forgetful. 1983, 850 churches and a score of the then leading Christian personality's ( Pat was one)gathered on the same date that this voodoo ceremony took place in 1791 and walked around Haiti and prayed and consecrated Haiti as the lord's. Haiti today has more Christians then the small minority that worship voodoo.

This is wonderful that they prayed....and wonderful to hear of the Christians there. One good thing that may come out of Pat's statements are to inform prayer warriors for specific things to pray about.

[christopher]

Hi Roy,

I don't know how Pat would feel about being defended by invoking his age, but to be quite honest I would feel a bit belittled by that if I were him (or anyone else of that age). I know that's not the way you meant it, but it is kind of presumptive don't you think? I'm only 42 and I've been somewhat forgetful all my life (just ask my wife ). I really don't see how age has anything to do with it. Granted, there are certain cognitive maladies that are more common as we grow older, but it's not a given, and it's not universal. I've known some pretty sharp old fellers in my time...much sharper than me.

As Christians, it's rather easy to look at the content of Pat's comments in their true context and say no harm, no foul. I'll grant you that. But when you look at it through the lenses of outsiders, who have experienced a trend of reckless and offensive judgmental comments from certain Christian personalities, is it really that far of an imagination stretch to see how the statement could be easily taken the way it was taken? I mean, quite frankly, anything Pat says at this point is going to be over scrutinized by a media just itching to feed the appetite of John Q Public that is already hyper-sensitive and waiting expectantly for the next ridiculous and outrageous thing that a Christian leader says or does. Why should we not try to avoid fueling that any further if at all possible?

Back to my original questions: (1) Whether it's true or not,why even bring it up (the "pact") in the context of a disaster like this? (2) When is it time for a Christian leader that has lost his salt and light with the world to step away from the public eye? (3) Is there value in offering an apology to those offended by our words, even if we didn't mean it? Even if our words were ripped out of context?

[steve]

Does'nt it say in the Psalms that only God has power over nature?

I know of Psalms that speak of God's power over nature, though I can't think of any that say that he alone has power over nature (after all, even men have been able to wield some power over nature—possibly even the power of causing storms and earthquakes).

God has power over everything, but there are many things over which man and demons also appear to have a measure of influence.

[Roy]

Hi Roy,

I don't know how Pat would feel about being defended by invoking his age, but to be quite honest I would feel a bit belittled by that if I were him (or anyone else of that age). I know that's not the way you meant it, but it is kind of presumptive don't you think? I'm only 42 and I've been somewhat forgetful all my life (just ask my wife ). I really don't see how age has anything to do with it. Granted, there are certain cognitive maladies that are more common as we grow older, but it's not a given, and it's not universal. I've known some pretty sharp old fellers in my time...much sharper than me.

Well Christopher you could call it presumptive, but at my age most of what I speak is considered presumptive. But, I do forget a lot of what I say.

I find it much easier to extend grace, then to call somebody out. I have learned that it brings peace and " who am I to judge another mans servant"

[steve7150]

I know of Psalms that speak of God's power over nature, though I can't think of any that say that he alone has power over nature (after all, even men have been able to wield some power over nature—possibly even the power of causing storms and earthquakes).





I think it's fair to say that if the devil had the power to cause earthquakes he would do it more often and if he did it as God's agent then i think it would contradict the following verses which sound to me as if God's wrath against the world was satisfied by Jesus.
1st John 2.2 says Jesus "is the propitiation for our sins, and not only ours but also for the sins of the whole world." Another words not everyone is saved but God's wrath is satisfied against the world.
2nd Cor 5.19 "God was in Christ reconciling the world to himself not counting their trespasses against them."

[steve]

I think it's fair to say that if the devil had the power to cause earthquakes he would do it more often

If God would give him leave, perhaps he would do so. I don't presume to know.