Near Death Experiences Valid?

User avatar
Jason
Posts: 372
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 12:28 pm

Near Death Experiences Valid?

Post by Jason » Tue Dec 16, 2008 10:54 am

I've read some books by those proporting NDEs and it's a fascenating topic! What does everything think of these experiences? I'm particularly interested in those experiences which can't be duplicated in the lab through depriving the brain of oxygen. I'm sure that leads to a "white light" experience but in no way explains remote viewing or knowledge of things happening while said person has no vital signs. I read in Anthony Flew's book that he belives there is something to NDEs. How about you ladies and gents?

User avatar
RND
Posts: 651
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2008 12:56 pm
Location: Victorville, California, USA
Contact:

Re: Near Death Experiences Valid?

Post by RND » Tue Dec 16, 2008 11:03 am

I think that maybe the Bible should be our guide instead of personal opinion:

Psa 104:29 Thou hidest thy face, they are troubled: thou takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust. 30 Thou sendest forth thy spirit, they are created: and thou renewest the face of the earth.

Job 14:10 But man dies and is laid low; he breathes his last and is no more. 11 As water disappears from the sea or a riverbed becomes parched and dry, 12 so man lies down and does not rise; till the heavens are no more, men will not awake or be roused from their sleep.

Psa 13:3 Consider and hear me, O LORD my God: lighten mine eyes, lest I sleep the sleep of death;

Eccl 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. 6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

Psa 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?

Psa 146:3 Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help. 4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.

Ezek 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die. 20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die.

Psa 22:29 All they that be fat upon earth shall eat and worship: all they that go down to the dust shall bow before him: and none can keep alive his own soul. 18 Behold, the eye of the LORD is upon them that fear him, upon them that hope in his mercy; 19 To deliver their soul from death, and to keep them alive in famine.

Psa 56:13 For thou hast delivered my soul from death: wilt not thou deliver my feet from falling, that I may walk before God in the light of the living?

Psa 89:48 What man is he that liveth, and shall not see death? shall he deliver his soul from the hand of the grave?

Here's a good web site for information on the topic at hand:

http://www.truthaboutdeath.com
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident." Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

You Are Israel
Sabbath Truth
Heavenly Sanctuary

User avatar
Allyn
Posts: 433
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 11:55 am
Location: Nebraska
Contact:

Re: Near Death Experiences Valid?

Post by Allyn » Tue Dec 16, 2008 12:11 pm

Jason wrote:I've read some books by those proporting NDEs and it's a fascenating topic! What does everything think of these experiences? I'm particularly interested in those experiences which can't be duplicated in the lab through depriving the brain of oxygen. I'm sure that leads to a "white light" experience but in no way explains remote viewing or knowledge of things happening while said person has no vital signs. I read in Anthony Flew's book that he belives there is something to NDEs. How about you ladies and gents?
Hi Jason,

I was a true to life lab experiement of blood/oxygen deprivation back in 1979. I was in a farm auger accident where my hooded jacket was wrapped tight around my throat and I went unconcious for a couple of minutes. I had no awareness of the time passing but just before I woke up a song was playing in my mind (can't remember the song at all) but there was no white light experience.

User avatar
TK
Posts: 1475
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:42 pm
Location: North Carolina

Re: Near Death Experiences Valid?

Post by TK » Wed Dec 17, 2008 8:58 am

I know we talked about this on the old forum.

Iam not sure about the relevance of your Bible verses, RND. Jason's question is about people who have died but are later recussitated. The verses talk about dead people.

I have read accounts of people who "left their body" and were able to see themselves on the oeprating table, or hospital bed, and were able to describe hidden things, like items on top of cabinets and even the roof of the hospital that they would have no way of knowing they were there.

The only issue in my mind is whether the people who have NDE's are actually dead. I am not sure about that. I guess it depends on how one defines death. If death is defined at that point where recussitation is not possible, then NDE people are not dead.

One thing we know for sure- Lazarus was dead; the widow's son was dead and Jairus' daughter was dead. Who knows what they experienced before Jesus came along. We will have to ask them someday.

TK

User avatar
RND
Posts: 651
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2008 12:56 pm
Location: Victorville, California, USA
Contact:

Re: Near Death Experiences Valid?

Post by RND » Wed Dec 17, 2008 10:35 am

TK wrote:I know we talked about this on the old forum.

Iam not sure about the relevance of your Bible verses, RND. Jason's question is about people who have died but are later recussitated. The verses talk about dead people.

I have read accounts of people who "left their body" and were able to see themselves on the oeprating table, or hospital bed, and were able to describe hidden things, like items on top of cabinets and even the roof of the hospital that they would have no way of knowing they were there.

The only issue in my mind is whether the people who have NDE's are actually dead. I am not sure about that. I guess it depends on how one defines death. If death is defined at that point where recussitation is not possible, then NDE people are not dead.

One thing we know for sure- Lazarus was dead; the widow's son was dead and Jairus' daughter was dead. Who knows what they experienced before Jesus came along. We will have to ask them someday.

TK
TK, I see your point and the reason I quoted scripture is that scripture always indicates what happens when people die. I've seen it said that it sometimes takes 30 minutes for all electrical activity in the brain to cease depending on the type of death. That might indicate some sort of dream-state at death and may explain why people that are "dead" 30 minutes leave their body or see white lights. Who knows? Scripture does!

The point you made regarding Lazarus and Jairus' daughter seems to have been the perfect places for God to explain the question of live after death, yet He didn't. Surely God knew His word would be confused and mixed with paganism so it seems to me that since God saw no reason to have anyone come back from the dead and explain what happened to them nothing happened to them. Jesus didn't say to Lazarus, "Come down!" That would indicate to me Lazarus was in Heaven. Jesus said, "Come forth!" That leads me to believe Lazarus never left the tomb.
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident." Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

You Are Israel
Sabbath Truth
Heavenly Sanctuary

User avatar
TK
Posts: 1475
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:42 pm
Location: North Carolina

Re: Near Death Experiences Valid?

Post by TK » Wed Dec 17, 2008 1:30 pm

RND- then you believe in "soul sleep?" I think Paidion does as well, but he doesnt call it soul sleep because he does not think the soul is separate from the body (or something like that). I may believe in something like this myself, although I am not 100% convinced.

TK

User avatar
TK
Posts: 1475
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:42 pm
Location: North Carolina

Re: Near Death Experiences Valid?

Post by TK » Wed Dec 17, 2008 1:36 pm

never mind RND- i see from your websites that you are SDA. now i see why you posted all those verses!

thx, TK

User avatar
RND
Posts: 651
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2008 12:56 pm
Location: Victorville, California, USA
Contact:

Re: Near Death Experiences Valid?

Post by RND » Wed Dec 17, 2008 1:40 pm

TK wrote:RND- then you believe in "soul sleep?" I think Paidion does as well, but he doesnt call it soul sleep because he does not think the soul is separate from the body (or something like that). I may believe in something like this myself, although I am not 100% convinced.

TK
I don't call it "soul sleep" TK, I call it by it's true name....death. Souls that sin die, AKA the wages of sin is death. All sin. All die. And you're right, I do believe man was created as a "living soul" not that man is of "dual" nature with a body that dies and a soul that floats away. Most major religions throughout history, whether pagan or not, have believed in the "duality" of man. I don't see anywhere in scripture where it can be said that man is anything but a living soul.
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident." Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

You Are Israel
Sabbath Truth
Heavenly Sanctuary

User avatar
RND
Posts: 651
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2008 12:56 pm
Location: Victorville, California, USA
Contact:

Re: Near Death Experiences Valid?

Post by RND » Wed Dec 17, 2008 1:41 pm

TK wrote:never mind RND- i see from your websites that you are SDA. now i see why you posted all those verses!

thx, TK
So, whad'ya think of the sites TK?!
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident." Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

You Are Israel
Sabbath Truth
Heavenly Sanctuary

User avatar
TK
Posts: 1475
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:42 pm
Location: North Carolina

Re: Near Death Experiences Valid?

Post by TK » Thu Dec 18, 2008 9:04 am

well- i didnt take the time to look at them for a long time- but what i saw looked all right. i'll have to take a closer look

TK

P.S. where does the term "soul sleep" come from? I thought that was a SDA term, but i must be wrong about that. does any other group call it soul sleep?

Post Reply

Return to “General Questions”