The Flood

TerryZ
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The Flood

Post by TerryZ » Wed May 31, 2017 11:38 am

Hi all!

I am new to the forums although I have been a listener of the show for many years. Thank you Steve for all you provide!

My question is why God flooded the earth in light of the grand plan of salvation through Jesus. Since sin would still be apart of humanity, only to flourish again, and it would take the sacrifice of Jesus to ultimatly set things right, I have always wondered why God would send the flood as sort of a temporary fix. Thank you for any insights!

Terry

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njd83
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Re: The Flood

Post by njd83 » Wed May 31, 2017 12:12 pm

Partly to remove the half breeds: angels with human women having children. Those children became demons after they died in the flood.

“Now it came about, when men began to multiply on the face of the land, and daughters were born to them, that the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves, whomever they chose.” (Genesis 6:1–2, NASB95)
Enoch Chapter 15:
15.1 And He answered and said to me, and I heard His voice: ‘Fear not, Enoch, thou righteous man and scribe of righteousness: approach hither and hear my voice. 2 And go, say to «the Watchers of heaven», who have sent thee to intercede «for them: “You should intercede» for men, and not men for you: 3 Wherefore have ye left the high, holy, and eternal heaven, and lain with women, and defiled yourselves with the daughters of men and taken to yourselves wives, and done like the children of earth, and begotten giants (as your) sons? 4 And though ye were holy, spiritual, living the eternal life, you have defiled yourselves with the blood of women, and have begotten (children) with the blood of flesh, and, as the children of men, have lusted after flesh and blood as those ‹also› do who die and perish. 5 Therefore have I given them wives also that they might impregnate them, and beget children by them, that thus nothing might be wanting to them on earth. 6 But you were ‹formerly› spiritual, living the eternal life, and immortal for all generations of the world. 7 And therefore I have not appointed wives for you; for as for the spiritual ones of the heaven, in heaven is their dwelling. 8 And now, the giants, who are produced from the spirits and flesh, shall be called evil spirits upon the earth, and on the earth shall be their dwelling. 9 Evil spirits have proceeded from their bodies; because they are born from men «and» from the holy Watchers is their beginning and primal origin; ‹they shall be evil spirits on earth, and› evil spirits shall they be called. 10 [As for the spirits of heaven, in heaven shall be their dwelling, but as for the spirits of the earth which were born upon the earth, on the earth shall be their dwelling.] 11 And the spirits of the giants afflict, oppress, destroy, attack, do battle, and work destruction on the earth, and cause trouble: they take no food, ‹but nevertheless hunger› and thirst, and cause offences. 12 And these spirits shall rise up against the children of men and against the women, because they have proceeded ‹from them›.
Jubilees Chapter 7:
20 And in the twenty-eighth jubilee Noah began to enjoin upon his sons’ sons the ordinances and commandments, and all the judgments that he knew, and he exhorted his sons to observe righteousness, and to cover the shame of their flesh, and to bless their Creator, and honour father and mother, and love their neighbour, and guard their souls from fornication and uncleanness and all iniquity. 21 For owing to these three things came the flood upon the earth, namely, owing to the fornication wherein the Watchers against the law of their ordinances went a whoring after the daughters of men, and took themselves wives of all which they chose: and they made the beginning of uncleanness.

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mattrose
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Re: The Flood

Post by mattrose » Wed May 31, 2017 3:51 pm

Hey :)

The most 'Biblical' answer to your question is that God sent the flood because God regretted making people due to how violent they had become (6:6-8, 13). Clearly, though (given that God chose to save Noah and His family and establish a covenant with him), God wasn't completely giving up on humanity.

But most Christians aren't comfortable with the idea that God could have 'regrets' (even though it's exactly what the text says). This would suggest that God didn't 'know' (for certain) that humanity was going to become so violent. Since most Christians believe that God knows the future with absolute certainty, your question is a good one. From that perspective I'd simply suggest that a 'temporary fix' (as you worded it) is better than no fix at all.

Personally, I'm more willing to accept God's 'regret' as reflecting reality (and not an anthropomorphism). I believe humans could have been less violent, but they rebelled. God saw humanity become more and more corrupt, resisting divine grace over and over, until we (essentially) pushed grace so far away that creation collapsed onto itself.

God found 1 man willing to receive divine grace and, therefore, re-started the divine plan to save the world with him and his family.

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njd83
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Re: The Flood

Post by njd83 » Wed May 31, 2017 4:16 pm

“For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into Tartarus and committed them to pits of darkness, reserved for judgment; and did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a preacher of righteousness, with seven others, when He brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly;” (2 Peter 2:4–5, NASB95)

“And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in everlasting bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day,” (Jude 6, NASB95)

steve7150
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Re: The Flood

Post by steve7150 » Thu Jun 01, 2017 8:13 pm

Partly to remove the half breeds: angels with human women having children. Those children became demons after they died in the flood.










I think Angels having sex with women seems hard to believe since they are non physical so how would that work? Since Seth & his descendants were the topic in Chap 5 & since Chapter divisions were man made perhaps Chap 6 was just a continuation of Seth's descendants and perhaps they were possessed by demons and mated with women and in effect most of the population ended up being demon possessed and had to be destroyed.

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njd83
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Re: The Flood

Post by njd83 » Thu Jun 01, 2017 8:16 pm

I understand the resistance to what I brought up. I didn't like it either when I started researching it. But ancient accounts hold to it for one. And for two, what abode did the angels give up in heaven to come have an abode on earth for? Wouldn't you rather be in heaven? Wouldn't they? What's attractive about earth that the angels did not get from God?

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njd83
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Re: The Flood

Post by njd83 » Thu Jun 01, 2017 8:44 pm

some more quotes:
For many angels of God accompanied with women, and begot sons that
proved unjust, and despisers of all that was good, on account of the
confidence they had in their own strength; for the tradition is, that these
men did what resembled the acts of those whom the Grecians call
giants or Titans.
Josephus Ant. 1.3.1
Sons of God refers to angels in the bible, except regarding humans adoption into Christ in the NT.
“Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them.” (Job 1:6, NASB95)

“Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them to present himself before the LORD.” (Job 2:1, NASB95)

““Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Tell Me, if you have understanding, Who set its measurements? Since you know. Or who stretched the line on it? “On what were its bases sunk? Or who laid its cornerstone, When the morning stars sang together And all the sons of God shouted for joy?” (Job 38:4–7, NASB95)

““But you said in your heart, ‘I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God, And I will sit on the mount of assembly In the recesses of the north.” (Isaiah 14:13, NASB95)

“And his tail swept away a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was about to give birth, so that when she gave birth he might devour her child.” (Revelation 12:4, NASB95)

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mattrose
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Re: The Flood

Post by mattrose » Thu Jun 01, 2017 8:54 pm

One of my favorite times ever listening to The Narrow Path was Steve offering what I considered to be a devastating critique of the position that God flooded the world to get rid of half-breed angel-people

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njd83
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Re: The Flood

Post by njd83 » Thu Jun 01, 2017 8:56 pm

can you summarize it here?

steve7150
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Re: The Flood

Post by steve7150 » Thu Jun 01, 2017 8:58 pm

I understand the resistance to what I brought up. I didn't like it either when I started researching it. But ancient accounts hold to it for one. And for two, what abode did the angels give up in heaven to come have an abode on earth for? Wouldn't you rather be in heaven? Wouldn't they? What's attractive about earth that the angels did not get from God?










I don't really resist it since it would explain why God needed to destroy mankind but sexual desire is fueled by chemicals and hormones and needs physical parts which angels don't have so maybe they were fallen angels or demons and possessed men and drove them to do ungodly things.

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