The Septuagint vs The Masoretic Text

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TheEditor
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Re: The Septuagint vs The Masoretic Text

Post by TheEditor » Thu Apr 16, 2015 10:11 pm

I have read that this LXX rendering "danced" was a euphemism. "And they will look to me because they have danced." Some add the word "triumphantly" after "danced." I assume this is a "thumbing of the nose" kind of connotation, but I could be wrong.

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dizerner
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Re: The Septuagint vs The Masoretic Text

Post by dizerner » Thu Apr 16, 2015 11:38 pm

Interpreting it as a mocking dance is one way to make sense of it. When we have another Hebrew reading, and a clear path from one word to another, it seems like pretty strong circumstantial evidence though.
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dizerner
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Re: The Septuagint vs The Masoretic Text

Post by dizerner » Sun May 17, 2015 6:13 pm

Jer 31(38):8 MT
וקבצתים מירכתי ארץ בם עור ופסח הרה וילדת יחדו
קהל גדול ישובו הנה
And I shall gather them from the farthest
parts of the earth, among them the blind
and the lame, the pregnant woman, and the
one in labor, together, a great multitude
shall return hither.

LXX
καί συνάξω αυτούς άτι έσχάτου της γης èv
έορτη φασεκ ' καί τεκνοποιήση δχλον πολύν
καί άποστρέψουσιν ώδε
And I shall gather them from the farthest
part of the earth at the feast of Pesach,
and you will give birth to a great
multitude, and they shall return hither.
(implying: במועד פסח )


The Greek translator had a text in mind that differed completely from MT,
ascribing the return of the Jews from the exile to the time of Passover (cf. Τ to Cant
1:1 referring to Isa 30:29). The great difference in meaning between MT and the
LXX is based on a relatively small difference in consonants and vowels. Once the
words 'among them the blind and the lame (MT) had been read as 'at the feast of
Pesach,' the context was completely changed and the translator was impelled, as it
were, to conceive of several details in the verse in a way different from MT. In
particular, the words 'the pregnant woman and the one in labor, together' (הרה
(וילדת יחדו ) did not suit the new context. This caused the translator to introduce a
second verb, parallel to the first one, by vocalizing מלךת instead of וילדת
Furthermore, he represented neither הרה nor יחדו The upshot of this maneuvering
was a rendering καΐ τεκνοποι, ήση δχλον πολύν (and you will give birth to a great
multitude). The translator's Vorlage of the whole phrase was, as it were,
הנה וקבצתים מירכתי ארץ במועד פסח וילד־ת קהל גדול וישובו
The existence of that reading and its vocalization must be strongly doubted.

(Tov, collected essays on the LXX, chapter 14 gives examples of all the types of ways the LXX mistranslated)
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Paidion
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Re: The Septuagint vs The Masoretic Text

Post by Paidion » Sun May 17, 2015 9:37 pm

Dizerner, what you have said about the current Septugint's translation as "to the feast of the passover" instead of "among them the blind and the lame" and the "giving birth to a great multitude" instead of "the pregnant woman and the one in labor," may be correct. The Septuagint has changed over the centuries, and the current text may not be the original.

Do you recall what I wrote about Qumran cave 4 probably containing the original Hebrew? One significant observation concerning the book of Jeremiah, is that the Septuagint contains only about 87% of the quantity of text that the Masoretic Text contains. It is also the case that the Hebrew text from cave 4 also contains the same 87%.

I am wondering whether your source is simply out to discredit the Septuagint by making no refence to the places where it agrees with the Cave 4 Hebrew text and disagrees with the Masoretic text. I have pointed out several such places in previous posts in this thread. However here are two in the very passage in Jeremiah to which you refer. You have confined your comments to verse 8. Consider the following from verse 7. Both the Hebrew of cave 4 and the Septuagint contain the words, "The Lord has saved," whereas the Masoretic Text reads instead, "O Lord, save."

Then up in verse 20 of the previous chapter, a plural Hebrew word is translated as "testimonies" in the Septuagint, but as "communities" in the Hebrew of Cave 4. But the Masoretic Text renders the word in the singular. The NKJV, for example, has it as "congregation."
Paidion

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Paidion
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Re: The Septuagint Text

Post by Paidion » Fri Mar 19, 2021 7:48 pm

I happen to have an English translation of the Greek Septuagint, translated by Sir Lancelot Brenten in 1857.
The names of the books of the Septuagint are as follows. If you wish to read any one of these, I could post Brenten's translation.

Genesis 1 Psalms 675
Exodus 51 Proverbs 748
Leviticus 91 Ecclesiastes 774
Numbers 122 Song of Songs 783
Deuteronomy 168 Wisdom 788
Joshua 207 Sirach 805
Judges 233 Esias 848
Ruth 261 Jeremias 901
Kings I. (I Samuel) 265 Lamentations 957
Kings II. (II
Samuel) 300 Baruch 965
Kings III. (I Kings) 331 Jezekiel 974
Kings IV. (II Kings) 366 Daniel 1030
Chronicles I 398 Osee 1053
Chronicles II 428 Joel 1062
Ezra 466 Amos 1066
I Esdras 478 Obdias 1073
Nehemiah 496 Jonas 1075
Tobit 512 Michaeas 1078
Judith 523 Naum 1084
Esther 540 Ambacum 1087
Paidion

Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.

Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.

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