Upcoming Election

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mattrose
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Re: Upcoming Election

Post by mattrose » Sat Aug 20, 2016 9:58 am

dwight92070 wrote:And my point is that, as Christians, we each have our own gift(s)/calling. Some of us may be called, after our 1st love for God, to be passionate about American politics. Thank God that many of our founding fathers who were believers were also passionate about politics, or we may not have enjoyed the freedoms that we have today. In many of their lives, that was their life's calling and work, just as some are called to be farmers or pastors or mailmen, etc. There is no reason why that could not be true today for some Christians as well. However, I agree with you that no Christian is called to be a jerk. God made politics, i.e. it was His idea. Politics is a good thing. It is not a necessary evil.
It is within the realm of possibility that God could call someone to be involved in their earthly nation's government. I am not really taking issue with that. I am concerned with the fact that I see a lot of Christians voicing passion for earthly government at a level that I rarely, if ever, see them voice for the government of God (the Kingdom).

God ordained the idea of government to provide structure for the fallen world. I don't think that is a far cry from saying it is a necessary evil.

steve7150
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Re: Upcoming Election

Post by steve7150 » Sat Aug 20, 2016 11:07 am

I don't think that is a far cry from saying it is a necessary evil.




Yes, necessary evil encompasses it!

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Paidion
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Re: Upcoming Election

Post by Paidion » Sat Aug 20, 2016 11:21 am

Dwight wrote:Thank God that many of our founding fathers who were believers..
.
"Believers" in the sense of being Christians? Many of them? Name three.
God made politics, i.e. it was His idea.
Do you have any Scriptural evidence for that? (excluding the nation of ancient Israel, which was a special case).
Paidion

Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.

Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.

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dwight92070
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Re: Upcoming Election

Post by dwight92070 » Sat Aug 20, 2016 5:56 pm

John Adams, John Quincy Adams, Samuel Adams, Josiah Bartlett, Gunning Bedford, Elias Boudinot. That's 6. The 1st, 3rd and 4th signed the Declaration of Independence. The 5th was a signer of the Constitution. The 6th was the framer of the Bill of Rights. All of these appear to have been Christians and there are many more.

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dwight92070
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Re: Upcoming Election

Post by dwight92070 » Sat Aug 20, 2016 6:11 pm

Mattrose,

It amazes me to see how far you (and Paidon) will go to find a way to disagree with me.

If government is a necessary evil, then so are families, because God created them, among other reasons, to give structure to a fallen world as well. And you could say He created the church, among other reasons, to do the same.

This society is fond of hating religion and politics, yet both were created by God. "Pure and undefiled religion is to visit orphans and widows ... etc."

God told Adam and Eve to fill and subdue the earth and to rule over the animals, fish,etc. Thus we have the origin of government and politics.

thrombomodulin
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Re: Upcoming Election

Post by thrombomodulin » Sat Aug 20, 2016 7:45 pm

Mattrose,

It is my understanding that a Christian's duty is to be a faithful steward of the resources God has given to each of us. Part of this is a duty to work, using our bodies, so that we are able to give some part of the fruit of our labor to those who are lacking in material things (e.g. the benevolence of Eph 4:28b). Why does God admonish us to do this? Is it solely to test our faith to see if we are or are not selfish? Is it only because He cares about the well being of the recipients who are in need of charity? Is it a combination of both, or some other reason?

If God has concerns about the well being of the poor, and if we are obliged as Christians to alleviate their difficulties by the provision of goods and/or services, then it follows that a connection is made between the allocation of the material things in this world and Christian ethics. Each Christian is able to give some finite amount in charity, and no doubt this is beneficial for those who are in need. How much greater, however, are the benefits that the poor attain through a strong economy that floods the world with the goods it produces, and with jobs that it creates which produce rising real wages?

It is difficult for me to be dispassionate about the political structure that affects so much of every persons life and well being, but especially those who are least well off among us. Consider that, in the United States, about 1/3 of economic activity is government spending and the remaining 2/3 is regulated in ways to numerous to count. My point is that a significant portion of the scarce resources God has placed in this world are being controlled through political means.

I find the above to make a compelling argument that political matters are a very important topic for the Christian, however, I know you see it differently. Am I making some mistake in reasoning, as described above, to arrive at the conclusion that this is a very important topic for Christians?

In addition, Steve recently went through a significant effort, in another thread, to argue that socialism is not consistent with justice from a Christian point of view. As socialism is already practiced on a large scale where we reside, it is an injustice of a significant magnitude. Should the Christian, who has an ethical concern that justice is done, not have passion in favor of its repeal?

Thanks,
Pete

thrombomodulin
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Re: Upcoming Election

Post by thrombomodulin » Sat Aug 20, 2016 7:47 pm

dwight92070 wrote:God told Adam and Eve to fill and subdue the earth and to rule over the animals, fish,etc. Thus we have the origin of government and politics.
Politics is some men ruling over other men - that isn't established in the dominion mandate. In this verse men are not given authority to rule over one another.

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Jepne
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Re: Upcoming Election

Post by Jepne » Sat Aug 20, 2016 8:21 pm

I sure agree with Matt Rose in regard to caring too much about politics. In the last election I was sure America was going to go to hell fast if Obama won another term. The day after the election I was so upset, crying and praying, and had a tangible feeling of the Kingdom of God displacing all my patriotism and concern about the election results. It was a great relief to have that gone from my heart.

If America went 'straight to hell' - it could be a good thing - who knows? Not that I would knowingly contribute to it, of course not. What I think of either candidate is not all that important. What is important that we be a people who are responsive to God.

We will see how it all turns out.
"Anything you think you know about God that you can't find in the person of Jesus, you have reason to question.” - anonymous

MMathis
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Re: Upcoming Election

Post by MMathis » Sun Aug 21, 2016 3:55 pm

jepne

This election is the one you were worried about. If we have a 3rd term of Obama, the SCOTUS will forever be changed. We have been one vote away for many years. Now we are 4 to 4. When it is 5 to 4 or 6 to 3 with the likes of Kagan, The country will never be able to recover.

Kagan was the editor of her school newspaper and fought to keep the military from recruiting on campus. Great resume for the SCOTUS.

Abortion and same sex marriage should be things that concern Christians to the point of voting against people back them.
We have now killed as many of our own as Stalin or Mao.

The left does not want a Theocracy but have no problem siding with people that think sharia is okydoky

Most Democrats I know think someone like JFK is still running their party. We are probably going to elect the most corrupt person that has ever run for The Oval Office. I think there are many women that would make a fine leader, just not this crook.

I know Trump is a character but all that matters at this point is it is him or her.
MMathis
Las Vegas NV

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Jepne
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Re: Upcoming Election

Post by Jepne » Sun Aug 21, 2016 6:11 pm

The whole thing may shake to pieces no matter who 'wins' - will we be a light in the darkness?

Last night I read a some reviews of a book by William Pepper - almost 500 pages of who killed MLK because he was speaking out against the Vietnam War. This morning, I wrote on my FB page, thinking of those who plan to vote for the 'lesser of two evils':

''Which of the two evils is more entrenched, more intentional?''

This is for Dwight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kmRB4a33_o
"Anything you think you know about God that you can't find in the person of Jesus, you have reason to question.” - anonymous

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