Upcoming Election

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MMathis
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Re: Upcoming Election

Post by MMathis » Fri Aug 19, 2016 1:37 am

Jepne wrote:
People can indeed immigrate toto your house. Right now, if it is vacant anyone can move in.
If you have locked your house they will be guilty of 'breaking and entering'. No??
We have approx 5,000 houses in Las Vegas occupied by squatters and it is growing. No the police can't take your word for it. If the person says they rented it from you, you have to go through the process. They will not be arrested for any reason. And you can be fined for shutting off the utilities, just like any landlord.

The next level would be for someone to move in while you live there. That has not been tried yet, but at some point it will be tested. Google squatter laws for your state, it may surprise you.

Liberalism is a mental disorder.
MMathis
Las Vegas NV

thrombomodulin
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Re: Upcoming Election

Post by thrombomodulin » Fri Aug 19, 2016 6:08 am

Paidion wrote: By their own authority as government.
The owner of U.S. property has the right to require any authority, even the U.S. President to get off his premises.
In Canada, even the police cannot legally force their way into a privately owned dwelling unless they have a warrant.
I presume it's the same in U.S.A.
This demonstrates that you are a property owner over the land you live on.
Paidion wrote: But notwithstanding, the municipal government has the authority and therefore the right to require us to pay taxes on this land.
But the municipality does not own our land.
This demonstrates that the State claims to be a property owner over the land you live on. If you don't pay your taxes, it will seize the land and evict you from it. It's claim to property rights in land are also apparent in that the State will prohibit or compel certain uses for property.

So as it is, neither you nor the State claim 100% ownership of the land - you both claim partial ownership. If so, then the idea that "States do not own property" is not a flaw in dwight92070's argument. Further, if the State indeed has the authority to own property, and if it has the authority to unilaterally change its portion of the ownership, then it may build a wall - or do anything else. If it does not own any property, then it may not do anything.

I actually agree with you that States are not able to own property, and thus I do disagree with Dwight's premise. I am pointing out here that the idea of the authority of the State is inseparable from the idea that States have property rights, so I think it is an error to claim the State has authority while denying hat it has partial or total property rights.

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mattrose
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Re: Upcoming Election

Post by mattrose » Fri Aug 19, 2016 8:27 am

Here's where I'm at with this election stuff recently

I'm struck by how small the differences between most people's goals are.

Pretty much everyone wants to get rid of the corruption within politics.
Pretty much everyone wants to get out of endless wars.
Pretty much everyone wants to help poor people.

Different sides the debate just disagree on HOW TO GET THERE. Generally speaking...

Republicans think Democrats are the source of corruption, democrats think the opposite
Republicans think peace comes through strength, democrats think it comes through
Republicans think the best way to help the poor is capitalism, democrats think socialism

I have seen a lot of Evangelicals take different positions on this election. And I've seen many of them get really upset with other Evangelicals for having a different perspective.

There are some Evangelicals who will vote for Hillary. They probably have the right motivations and, in my opinion, the wrong ideas on how to make those things a reality. There are many Evangelicals who will vote for Trump. To be honest, I'm a bit more concerned about the 'motivation' side (fear? anger?) on that front than I am with the Hillary supporters! There are many evangelicals who will vote for a 3rd Party (here, the motivation is probably good but the strategy in some ways might be flawed). And there are many evangelicals who won't vote at all. This could be poorly motivated (laziness) or well-intentioned (sole allegiance to the Kingdom of God).

I guess I say all that to say this... Christians simply shouldn't get overly passionate about American politics. And one sign of getting over-passionate about it is the poor treatment of fellow Christians simply because they disagree about American politics.

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Jepne
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Re: Upcoming Election

Post by Jepne » Fri Aug 19, 2016 10:42 am

Morbo 3000 - I quoted an article some time ago about the southern border on my FB page - and I have been hearing reports over the years about this sort of thing - mostly about Arizona.
The complaint as I have heard it is that the police are ineffective because the Federal gov will not back them up and deport the people back to Mexico. It is 'catch and release' over and over again. It has nothing to do with the quality of the people.

Thank you for the article link about Texas. The high crime rates for Houston and Dallas may be due to the fact that they are very large and dense cities - it is hard to find a quiet hilltop there to watch the sunset from. They should have compared the crime rates of cities and towns of comparable size.

Mmathis - that is scary. My liberal friends seem to not be living in reality.

My and many of my friends' leanings toward Trump are not out of fear and anger. They think he understands that we need a friend in the ME - namely, Israel. I hate what the Clintons did to the evening news in the 90s - with no apology for 'that woman' or any of the other women he violated. Her broadcasting 'there will never be boots on the ground' emboldens our enemies she refuses to face. Her lies to the congressional committees. Their wheelings and dealings with the “Global initiative”.

The US-Canadian border does not have drug cartel problems, and there is not the economic incentive for people to pour over the border in either direction. My border guard friend said they catch many fugitives in the midwest US Canadian border, which leads me to believe that the border here is not all that porous. And they do deport.

I would never have thought I could just come here and squat in Canada and expect them to give me citizenship and health care and welfare. That is a very unhealthy attitude to have about life, and similar to the attitudes of many Hippies I knew in the 60s - expect the world on a stick - sell dope and collect food stamps. Some of my old hippie friends think we should have open borders and free everything. Amazing.
"Anything you think you know about God that you can't find in the person of Jesus, you have reason to question.” - anonymous

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Jepne
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Re: Upcoming Election

Post by Jepne » Fri Aug 19, 2016 11:38 am

Morbo3000 - The Texas Tribune article you posted states that there is a large concentration of law enforcement on the Texas border from all departments and that is why there might not be much crime there.

''Much of the recent law enforcement surge has been pushed by Republicans and opposed by Democrats, prompting some curious political anomalies. Republicans have fought for — and largely succeeded in obtaining — record expenditures for border security, but they continue to argue the border is unsafe.

Democrats argue against "militarizing" the border but acknowledge the influx of law enforcement has made it a safer place.

“When you have more and more visibility, there’s obviously a deterrent for those who commit crimes,” Hinojosa said. “We’re dealing with some serious problems on the border ... that’s why this last [legislative] session we focused on law enforcement that will be effective.”

So - thanks for posting it!
"Anything you think you know about God that you can't find in the person of Jesus, you have reason to question.” - anonymous

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dwight92070
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Re: Upcoming Election

Post by dwight92070 » Fri Aug 19, 2016 5:52 pm

So Trump is visiting the people of Baton Rouge, but Obama couldn't get away from his golf game at Martha's Vineyard and Hillary has to be at her husband's 70th birthday party. Obama said he will be there on Tuesday and I think Hillary on Monday. Apparently, there's no rush.

Imagine if it was George W. on the golf course or preparing for his wife's birthday party. He would be bombasted by the Democrats. Of course he was bombasted over Katrina. At least Trump is showing his concern.

Singalphile
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Re: Upcoming Election

Post by Singalphile » Fri Aug 19, 2016 9:48 pm

I second your last post, mattrose.

If you get angry or stressed by certain political pundits, I recommend shutting that all off. I think you'll be happier and healthier.

I can vote for someone who disagrees with me, no problem, but I have a difficult time voting for someone who I think is corrupt and fundamentally dishonest and self-serving, even if the candidate says he or she agrees with me 99% of the time. I would like to be able to speak against incivility, dishonesty, and corruption in politics in future elections without thinking of myself as a hypocrite!

I suppose that everyone would eventually withhold his or her vote if presented with candidates that are deemed bad enough. When you reach that point where you don't trust any candidate as far as you can throw him or her, then there doesn't seem like much point.

So I don't know. Perhaps my state (TX) is a given for Trump, anyway.
... that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. John 5:23

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dwight92070
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Re: Upcoming Election

Post by dwight92070 » Fri Aug 19, 2016 10:45 pm

mattrose wrote:
I guess I say all that to say this... Christians simply shouldn't get overly passionate about American politics. And one sign of getting over-passionate about it is the poor treatment of fellow Christians simply because they disagree about American politics.
Dwight speaking ...Should we also say: Christians simply shouldn't get overly passionate about Christian ethics and Christian doctrine. One sign of getting overly passionate about them is the poor treatment of fellow Christians simply because they disagree about Christian ethics and Christian doctrine?

I'm not sure that passion about any of those topics is the problem rather than just getting in the flesh in how we treat each other.

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mattrose
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Re: Upcoming Election

Post by mattrose » Fri Aug 19, 2016 11:03 pm

dwight92070 wrote:Dwight speaking ...Should we also say: Christians simply shouldn't get overly passionate about Christian ethics and Christian doctrine. One sign of getting overly passionate about them is the poor treatment of fellow Christians simply because they disagree about Christian ethics and Christian doctrine?

I'm not sure that passion about any of those topics is the problem rather than just getting in the flesh in how we treat each other.
My point was...
1) American politics should not be a high priority for Christians
2) Mistreatment of other Christians over political stances is a sign of over-prioritization

Your supposed parallel is...
1) Christian ethics/doctrine should not be a high priority for Christians
2) Mistreatment of other Christians over ethics/doctrine is a sign of over-prioritization

The parallel doesn't work b/c Christian ethics/doctrine should be a high priority for Christians.

So I stick to my point that passion over politics is a mis-prioritization even while granting that it would be possible to be passionate about politics without being a jerk.

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dwight92070
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Re: Upcoming Election

Post by dwight92070 » Sat Aug 20, 2016 8:09 am

And my point is that, as Christians, we each have our own gift(s)/calling. Some of us may be called, after our 1st love for God, to be passionate about American politics. Thank God that many of our founding fathers who were believers were also passionate about politics, or we may not have enjoyed the freedoms that we have today. In many of their lives, that was their life's calling and work, just as some are called to be farmers or pastors or mailmen, etc. There is no reason why that could not be true today for some Christians as well. However, I agree with you that no Christian is called to be a jerk. God made politics, i.e. it was His idea. Politics is a good thing. It is not a necessary evil.

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