Pentecostal Language

[jaydam]

I have many Pentecostal friends on Facebook, and there lingo goes something like this if somebody gets sick, say with cancer, or gets injured:

I declare healing in Jesus' name.

I am in complete belief of their healing. It has already happened.

It is understood in these cases that they are looking for the person's physical healing, not some spiritualized "they are healed in heaven now" if the person dies.

But, what if the person does not get better?

Do you guys think that declaring something false in Jesus' name is taking his name in vain? Obviously it means you declared something you were wrong about.

As far as believing in healing and it not happening, they obviously chose to believe in something false, and we should only believe what is true. Would you place this belief as boarding on idolatry - being you believed in something that was obviously not of God since it did not happen?

[dizerner]

I come out of this movement so I think I have an idea of it.

Basically in their minds praying with anything they perceive as "unbelief" is weak and sinful. They base this entirely upon verses like:

"And all things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive."

That's a tough verse when taken literally, because it doesn't match up with most peoples' experiences. But they go into kind of a denial at times, either saying the sick person didn't have enough faith (like they need one more thing to feel bad about right?), or some such.

So if you pray like a Baptist "Lord if it's your will" or if you pray "my hopes and best wishes that you get well," they will see that as not praying in faith.

I'm not sure they have a correct understanding of faith, and although I would call it more presumptuous than idolatrous, their preachers preach this so much that it seeps into their minds, at least I've seen its effects on others and myself. I've not been in this movement for something like 15 years and I still struggle battling this teaching in my mind.

The irony is, God has healed me at times when I didn't "confess" as they teach you should, and God has not healed me when I confessed and believed perfectly. So in my experience anyway, their understanding of how it works is completely off base, lol.

How one should deal with it, I really don't know. Just realize it really can be a type of brain washing, and that's hard to get out. The problem is just how hurtful it can be to so many people, and destructive to their faith in God.

[backwoodsman]

I spent a lot of time in those circles many years ago. One of the things that eventually opened my eyes to the falsehood of it was seeing, time after time, all those declarations of healing, commanding demons and illnesses, etc., never once affecting the outcome of anything; yet no one would ever admit that the formulas clearly don't work, and maybe we need to rethink our obviously fraudulent use of Jesus' name and the theology that got us there. The subtle brainwashing Dizerner mentions is very much at work there, but they certainly don't have a corner on that among evangelical Christians.

(I have seen genuine miraculous instant healings, but never where those sorts of teachings and practices were in play.)

Now, long after leaving those circles, I realize that those practices are really much closer to witchcraft and spell casting than to anything resembling Biblical Christianity.

[TK]

From purely personal experience, I will avow that I have had much better success attacking sickness in prayer than asking for myself or someone else to get better "if it be your will." I think that's a mealy-mouthed kind of prayer, no offense intended.

How can I expect a positive outcome if I am always falling back on "if it be your will?"

I would rather assume that it is God's will than otherwise. I am not sure how faith is possible if I have no idea whether God really wants someone healed.

[jaydam]

I agree with the asking. That is usually how I pray, asking for God's will to be done and for him to give consideration to possibly healing the person.

There is one personal experience I have with a close friend who came out of sleeping around and hard drug abuse. They were diagnosed with Hep C. During a time of worship and prayer with them, I felt pushed internally beyond a level that allowed me to comfortably keep quiet that I was to pronounce healing of the hepatitis. Others there at the time did not know about the illness, so I pulled the person to the side and declared healing. This was far outside my comfort zone, and I would not have said such things but for the internal discomfort I felt at not doing it.

The next week the person went in for more testing and the doctors were baffled when he was found to have no Hep C.

If this was true healing, which I believe it was, it took no showmanship, but was brought about by a move upon my heart, and a private moment. The Pentecostals I have seen believe it takes a village to hit the faith mark of breakthrough.

One other time, my wife and I were working with a battered woman from our church. We took her in, and her husband was a physical threat to her and us. One day I felt a push like the previous time to pray Psalms 55 with her and my wife. It declares that God will kill the bad person before they can harm God's servants. While we protected the wife, the husband suddenly died from what the coroner considered unknown causes - the husband was a fit 29 year old.

Again, I believe this was a miracle, but it happened again in a small setting, no showmanship in front of the church, and even after he died few people have heard the story.

These are the only two times in my life that I have felt pushed to declare something rather than ask.

In my mind, it seems like false prophecy to declare something within the internal push/voice/whatever-you-call-it. It seems like treading Christ's name underfoot, and even idolatry.

I'm just trying to figure out if I'm being too harsh to consider it so grievously.

Although, I admit, even if it is grievous, I believe many people do it ignorantly. They have been taught they need to wind up their faith enough to cause breakthrough.

[Paidion]

That is usually how I pray, asking for God's will to be done and for him to give consideration to possibly healing the person.

Why so indefinite? I heard someone ask, "If you pray in an indefinite way, how will you know whether or not God answered the prayer? Wouldn't you get the same results (or lack thereof), if you prayed to your coffee cup?

I am in complete belief of their healing. It has already happened.

I had always been skeptical of this kind of pronouncement, too, until I saw it work, myself.

There was a man visiting our area, whom I heard speak in a Baptist church (I'll call him "James"). He spoke of the baptism in the Holy Spirit and the gifts of the Spirit. He also spoke of many healings that took place when he prayed for people. I knew a man who had been seeking the baptism in the Spirit (I'll call him "John"), so after the meeting (about 11 P.M.) I told this man about John, and asked him if he were willing to lose some sleep to minister to John. (I had asked this question to others who preached in a similar way to James, but they always refused). Well, unlike the others, James agreed to see John, and I went with him. He tried to help John to get baptized in the Spirit, but nothing seemed to happen.

While he was there, John's wife who was limping and seemed to be in great pain, said, "I'm sorry, I have to go to bed. I have intense pain in my back." James then said, "May I pray for you, Sister?" She responded, "I guess so." James prayed fervently for her, but when the prayer was ended, she went limping off to bed. Before John's wife got out of the room, James said to her, "Now that you have been healed, Sister, the devil will give you pain in order to get you to doubt your healing. Just resist him in the name of the Lord Jesus." She didn't look very happy about it and continued to limp out of the room. I felt like saying to James, "Is this the kind of healing you've been talking about tonight?" In my mind I said some pretty sarcastic things to James. Then I went home, greatly disappointed.

The next morning about 8 A.M, we received a phone call from John's wife. She was ecstatic! "Don, I've been healed! After I went to bed, I thought I'd try doing what James said, and immediately all my pain was gone, and it never returned! Needless to say, I was very surprised, and I rejoiced with her!

[jaydam]

That is usually how I pray, asking for God's will to be done and for him to give consideration to possibly healing the person.

Wouldn't you get the same results (or lack thereof), if you prayed to your coffee cup?

No, because my coffee cup cannot fulfill the request.

[jaydam]

I am in complete belief of their healing. It has already happened.

I had always been skeptical of this kind of pronouncement, too, until I saw it work, myself.

Did God heal because of the pronouncement, in spite of it, or in obligation to it?

Edit: As I showed from my testimony, there are two times I have made a pronouncement of some sort and it was answered. This pronouncement came out of an understanding in my spirit that I cannot describe.

Therefore, I can acknowledge a time and place for such statements. But what I am looking at is the Pentecostal belief of universally applying the pronouncements and getting a hit or miss result.

The misses show that they are misapplying their belief, and not listening to the will of God, or at least speaking when they shouldn't because they have not heard from him.

Thus, I am wondering the gravity of such irresponsible declarations. It seems to me it would equate to at least false prophecy.

Generally, those Pentecostals I have entertained this idea with tell me they see no harm in attempting to declare healing in every case. The 1 out of 10 times it works proves its validity.

I would believe the 9 times out of 10 it doesn't work means they are speaking 90% false prophecy about a future of healing that will not come.

[Paidion]

That is usually how I pray, asking for God's will to be done and for him to give consideration to possibly healing the person.

Wouldn't you get the same results (or lack thereof), if you prayed to your coffee cup?

No, because my coffee cup cannot fulfill the request.

But that's just the point. In an indefinite prayer such as you pray, there's no way to know whether God answered it or not. If you prayed the same prayer to your coffee cup, there's no way of knowing whether the coffee cup answered or not.

But I think your position is that you KNOW your coffee cup cannot fulfill your request, but that you don't know whether God will answer it or not, but you believe He has the power to do so.

However, after having prayed in that fashion, you still won't know whether He answered or not. But if you pray a definite prayer, you can then say either, "He didn't answer, at least not immediately; He may answer it later", OR "I got what I asked God for, and so God probably gave it to me, although it is possible that it just happened."

[jaydam]

But that's just the point. In an indefinite prayer such as you pray, there's no way to know whether God answered it or not. If you prayed the same prayer to your coffee cup, there's no way of knowing whether the coffee cup answered or not.

But I think your position is that you KNOW your coffee cup cannot fulfill your request, but that you don't know whether God will answer it or not, but you believe He has the power to do so.

However, after having prayed in that fashion, you still won't know whether He answered or not. But if you pray a definite prayer, you can then say either, "He didn't answer, at least not immediately; He may answer it later", OR "I got what I asked God for, and so God probably gave it to me, although it is possible that it just happened."

I KNOW God will do his will taking my desires into account. Thus, just as Christ petitioned that the cup might be taken from him, but if not that is ok too, I see no problem expressing my desire in petition/request/question form with submission to any outcome.

I don't believe it would ever be right to join the Pentecostal new age idea that we must believe and positively declare the healing for it to be manifested.

Additionally, I would see such false/unfulfilled declarations are an embarrassment to the church.