"Peace on earth"

[steve7150]

Since Christmas is coming up soon and we will see many decorations relating Jesus birth symbolizing peace on earth which may be a tradition from the RCC but what does scripture actually say about peace?
"Glory to God in the highest and on earth peace among those with whom he is pleased" Luke 2.14. I thnk it refers to peace with God, not with each other.

[Paidion]

Since Christmas is coming up soon and we will see many decorations relating Jesus birth symbolizing peace on earth which may be a tradition from the RCC but what does scripture actually say about peace?

"Glory to God in the highest and on earth peace among those with whom he is pleased" Luke 2.14. I thnk it refers to peace with God, not with each other.

Do you think this because of the translation you used above? In Greek, "God" is not part of the phrase about peace at all. Peace is wished among people of good will, or of good thinking, or of good opinion. Most translators have "peace to people of good will". The word "peace" (ειρηνη) seems to have been used for the Hebrew "shalom" which meant "well-being" in every sense of the word.

But did Jesus come to bring peace (or well-being)? He said He had not come to bring peace, but a sword. [Matthew 10:34]

[steve7150]

Do you think this because of the translation you used above? In Greek, "God" is not part of the phrase about peace at all. Peace is wished among people of good will, or of good thinking, or of good opinion. Most translators have "peace to people of good will". The word "peace" (ειρηνη) seems to have been used for the Hebrew "shalom" which meant "well-being" in every sense of the word





I quoted the ESV translation and the NASB has the same, here is the NKJV,

"Glory to God in the highest, and on earth , peace , goodwill toward men." Luke 2.14




So it appears this peace toward men is from God toward men , not really "peace on earth" , without God.

[TK]

I have heard it said that the angel's statement was a declaration of the end of enmity between God and man-- the Saviour is here!

TK

[steve7150]

I have heard it said that the angel's statement was a declaration of the end of enmity between God and man-- the Saviour is here!






"For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Savior who is Christ the Lord" Luke 2.11 Rarely was Jesus called "Christ" before his resurrection.

Christian Universalists like this verse "Fear not for behold, i bring you good news of a great joy that will be for all the people." Luke 2.10

Another example of "all" yet again but when? "That will be" , anytime God wills it, IMO.

[Michelle]

I have heard it said that the angel's statement was a declaration of the end of enmity between God and man-- the Saviour is here!






"For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Savior who is Christ the Lord" Luke 2.11 Rarely was Jesus called "Christ" before his resurrection.

Wait. What?

[steve7150]

Wait. What?





In the gospels before his resurrection was he not usually called Jesus and then Paul started calling him Christ Jesus after the resurrection or am i wrong about this?

[Michelle]

Here's a list I made just from a concordance of people who called him Christ prior to crucifixion:


The angels who announced Jesus's birth (Luke 2)

Simeon (and maybe Anna) (Luke 2)

The Wise Men, or at least Herod (Matt 2)

John the Baptist (Matt 11, John 3)

Andrew (John 1)

Philip (Him of whom Moses in the law, and also the prophets wrote) (John 1)

Nathaniel (John 1)

Simon Peter (Matt 16, Mark 8, Luke 9, John 6)

Demons (Luke 4)

The Woman at the Well (John 4)

The Samaritans in her village (John 4)

Some of the people at the Feast of Tabernacles (John 7)

Martha (John 11)

[steve7150]

Here's a list I made just from a concordance of people who called him Christ prior to crucifixion:







You're right and i stand corrected. Most of these examples are from John who really revealed Jesus divinity. Some of the synoptic examples are repeating each others accounts of the same event , but i should have checked first, my bad.

[Paidion]

Do you think this because of the translation you used above? In Greek, "God" is not part of the phrase about peace at all. Peace is wished among people of good will, or of good thinking, or of good opinion. Most translators have "peace to people of good will". The word "peace" (ειρηνη) seems to have been used for the Hebrew "shalom" which meant "well-being" in every sense of the word

I quoted the ESV translation and the NASB has the same, here is the NKJV,

"Glory to God in the highest, and on earth , peace , goodwill toward men." Luke 2.14

So it appears this peace toward men is from God toward men , not really "peace on earth" , without God.

Yes, I agree that this peace (well-being) has its source in God.

In your original post you stated:

Since Christmas is coming up soon and we will see many decorations relating Jesus birth symbolizing peace on earth which may be a tradition from the RCC but what does scripture actually say about peace?
"Glory to God in the highest and on earth peace among those with whom he is pleased" Luke 2.14. I thnk it refers to peace with God, not with each other.

I understood you in the above quote, to imply that it the passage referred only to individual peace which a person makes with God, and that this peace doesn't extend to peace among humanity.

I was wrong is stating that "most" translations have "peace to people of good will". I have found "men of good will" only in Douay, Rotherham, and Philips. However, the Greek has "of good will" as a single word, "εὐδοκιας" in the genitive case, coming immediately after the phrase "ἐν ἀνθρωποις" (in (or "among") people). Thus it seems "peace (well-being) among people of good will" would be a more accurate translation than "peace among those with whom he is pleased." There is no "with whom" or "he" the Greek text.

So is it possible that the coming of Christ brought, and continues to bring peace (or well-being) among people of good will, even with those who are not yet disciples of Christ? Is not the very coming of Christ the means by which all of us came to be disciples? And isn't our well-being the result? Isn't there a greater measure of peace between people, too? I know there is much violence in the world still, but there seems to be some improvement also. Instances of people being tortured or put to death because they disagree with the majority, seems much less frequent that in the early centuries of Christianity, or even in the middle ages.