Hello Friends,
I've been stewing over something for a while and I wanted to get some feedback from you.
I've spent some time now chatting with people, asking them about their testimonies and experiences. What I've come to realize is, everyone has them.
It's been a little troubling to me. Why? Because my experience/testimony (though unique to me), isn't unlike the others I've heard. But, if they all lead to Christianity and Jesus, that would be great, but they don't.
As I've talked to people, I've realized JW's, Mormons and people from AA and all kinds of people have these stories. A couple of JW's came and dropped off a Watchtower the other day (or Awake whatever they call em these days), and I was reading the testimonies. Interesting because, if you just change the wording, it would sound like any other christian testimony. They got off drugs, they started going to church, they got out of sin, marriages were repaired.
So I guess, what is boils down to is; this testimony and experience that I treasured doesn't seem to unique to Christianity as I know it. To me it was proof of God and His power in my life. It was me being lead to the truth. But, then as I stopped sharing my story and started listening to others, they have similar experiences.
Hopefully this all makes sense and you have have some thoughts to share.
RV
Experiences and Testimonies
Re: Experiences and Testimonies
It's been a little troubling to me. Why? Because my experience/testimony (though unique to me), isn't unlike the others I've heard. But, if they all lead to Christianity and Jesus, that would be great, but they don't.
How do non Christians even know anything about God and about what he may do? They have either heard about it from Jesus stories in scripture or heard it from Christians, that Jesus healed folks before there were any official Christians. These people just chose to believe him and he delivered them so why on earth would'nt God do it today? Basically Jesus gave some simple conditions like have faith, doubt not, fear not, ask in his name and believe until it happens in the natural. I think sometimes non Christians can have more faith about these things then Christians because they have'nt yet been taught how to reconcile the bible with the natural fallen world.
How do non Christians even know anything about God and about what he may do? They have either heard about it from Jesus stories in scripture or heard it from Christians, that Jesus healed folks before there were any official Christians. These people just chose to believe him and he delivered them so why on earth would'nt God do it today? Basically Jesus gave some simple conditions like have faith, doubt not, fear not, ask in his name and believe until it happens in the natural. I think sometimes non Christians can have more faith about these things then Christians because they have'nt yet been taught how to reconcile the bible with the natural fallen world.
Re: Experiences and Testimonies
Thanks for the reply Steve... although I think you may have meant to comment on another thread.
Re: Experiences and Testimonies
Thanks for the reply Steve... although I think you may have meant to comment on another thread.
No i had the right thread. My point was that Jesus healed and restored folks before there were official Christians.
No i had the right thread. My point was that Jesus healed and restored folks before there were official Christians.
Re: Experiences and Testimonies
Testimonies are interesting. And problematic. The problem is we are dishonest if we paint a false picture and only testify about good experiences. Here are some examples to consider; all are true:
1. I have been a Christian from my childhood, baptized at 12 years old. Got polio when I was twelve. My dad died in my twenties, I had major surgery in my thirties, my husband died in my forties leaving me with teenage boys to raise. I got cancer in my fifties and had a mastectomy, and was raped in my sixties, and then got alzheimer's and died at a relatively young age. I was faithful until death.
2. I have been a Christian all my life. My husband got into drugs and alcohol in spite of being a Christian. He became a criminal and was imprisoned. We divorced while he was in prison and the court gave him half of our assets which resulted in me losing my home. My kids, although raised as Christians, all had major problems. One is now an atheist, and the other two are not doing well. I got cancer and had major surgery, and the follow-up radiation treatments destroyed part of a lung. The damaged lung got infected repeatedly and ruined my health. I had surgery to remove the damaged part of my lung. Complications from this last surgery took my life at 51. I too was faithful to death.
3. My wife and I were Christians a long time. Our son commited suicide at 21. He blamed his mother. She blamed me. I got pancreatic cancer a year later. When my wife found out, she took the kids and left me for another man and I am now sick and homeless. I am determined to hold onto my faith.
Would we use these testimonies to witness to unbelievers? If testimonies are the way to make converts, why not? These true stories are about real experiences of real Christians. Or should we tell them about Jesus - who He is and what He did for all the world?
1. I have been a Christian from my childhood, baptized at 12 years old. Got polio when I was twelve. My dad died in my twenties, I had major surgery in my thirties, my husband died in my forties leaving me with teenage boys to raise. I got cancer in my fifties and had a mastectomy, and was raped in my sixties, and then got alzheimer's and died at a relatively young age. I was faithful until death.
2. I have been a Christian all my life. My husband got into drugs and alcohol in spite of being a Christian. He became a criminal and was imprisoned. We divorced while he was in prison and the court gave him half of our assets which resulted in me losing my home. My kids, although raised as Christians, all had major problems. One is now an atheist, and the other two are not doing well. I got cancer and had major surgery, and the follow-up radiation treatments destroyed part of a lung. The damaged lung got infected repeatedly and ruined my health. I had surgery to remove the damaged part of my lung. Complications from this last surgery took my life at 51. I too was faithful to death.
3. My wife and I were Christians a long time. Our son commited suicide at 21. He blamed his mother. She blamed me. I got pancreatic cancer a year later. When my wife found out, she took the kids and left me for another man and I am now sick and homeless. I am determined to hold onto my faith.
Would we use these testimonies to witness to unbelievers? If testimonies are the way to make converts, why not? These true stories are about real experiences of real Christians. Or should we tell them about Jesus - who He is and what He did for all the world?
Re: Experiences and Testimonies
Would we use these testimonies to witness to unbelievers? If testimonies are the way to make converts, why not? These true stories are about real experiences of real Christians. Or should we tell them about Jesus - who He is and what He did for all the world?Homer
I don't see that's it's an either or choice. Certainly talking about Jesus is the most important way to proclaim the gospel but i don't believe God caused these tragedies rather it's just living in a sin cursed world. However James said every good gift comes from God and if one truly believes God gave them one of these good gifts , it s/b proclaimed IMO.
I don't see that's it's an either or choice. Certainly talking about Jesus is the most important way to proclaim the gospel but i don't believe God caused these tragedies rather it's just living in a sin cursed world. However James said every good gift comes from God and if one truly believes God gave them one of these good gifts , it s/b proclaimed IMO.
Re: Experiences and Testimonies
I'm probably not articulating my thoughts very well.
The problem I see is that people outside of Christianity (as we know it) have testimonies and experiences that have lead them to their faith. Just like you and I have.
I had a discussion with someone once, I gave that person the testimony of a family member. After hearing their testimony, the individual that I was talking with, said that it appeared to be a true conversion to Christianity.
Well... then I added a few more details to the story, most importantly that he was a Mormon.
All of a sudden, his reaction changed.
My point is, the individual had an experience much like those in our faith.
I find that difficult to swallow.
Is anyone following me on this? If not I'll continue to do my best on explaining it.
If our conversations to the faith were unique to Christianity, it would be different. But they're not.
If you ask a JW or a Mormon if they've had answered prayer, their answer is going to be yes. Many times very specific answers to prayer, just like you and me.
Is it making more sense at this point?
RV
The problem I see is that people outside of Christianity (as we know it) have testimonies and experiences that have lead them to their faith. Just like you and I have.
I had a discussion with someone once, I gave that person the testimony of a family member. After hearing their testimony, the individual that I was talking with, said that it appeared to be a true conversion to Christianity.
Well... then I added a few more details to the story, most importantly that he was a Mormon.
All of a sudden, his reaction changed.
My point is, the individual had an experience much like those in our faith.
I find that difficult to swallow.
Is anyone following me on this? If not I'll continue to do my best on explaining it.
If our conversations to the faith were unique to Christianity, it would be different. But they're not.
If you ask a JW or a Mormon if they've had answered prayer, their answer is going to be yes. Many times very specific answers to prayer, just like you and me.
Is it making more sense at this point?
RV
Re: Experiences and Testimonies
You are making plenty of sense, RV.
The implication seems to be that since the experiences that Christians claim are due to their faith in (the true) God are common to other faiths, then either:
1. chance is at work, not God
2. all faiths are equally valid.
If i was an atheist i would argue #1 and if an inclusivist then I would argue #2.
i am neither, so my response would be #3. I am just not sure how to formulate what #3 is.
TK
The implication seems to be that since the experiences that Christians claim are due to their faith in (the true) God are common to other faiths, then either:
1. chance is at work, not God
2. all faiths are equally valid.
If i was an atheist i would argue #1 and if an inclusivist then I would argue #2.
i am neither, so my response would be #3. I am just not sure how to formulate what #3 is.
TK
Re: Experiences and Testimonies
Exactly TK
I wondering if anyone has thoughts on #3.
RV
I wondering if anyone has thoughts on #3.
RV
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darinhouston
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Re: Experiences and Testimonies
3. experiences and testimonies can be encouraging, but are not a reliable evidence of conversion -- scripture only promises that our love and fruit will be such evidence.RV wrote:Exactly TK
I wondering if anyone has thoughts on #3.
RV
Problem is, I see a lot of love and fruit from non-believers.