The Son of Man Must Suffer Many Things

[Michelle]

• From that time Jesus began to show to His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem, and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised the third day. (Matt 16:21)
  
  And He began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things, and be rejected by the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again.(Mark 8:31)
  
  saying, "The Son of Man must suffer many things, and be rejected by the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised the third day." (Luke 9:22

Why did Jesus have to suffer so many things? I know why he had to be killed and rise again, and for this I give thanks eternally, but why did it have to be so gruesome, so full of suffering?

[Homer]

Hi Michelle,

Perhaps Jesus' suffering teaches us the seriousness of sin and simultaneously how great God's love is.

God bless, Homer

[mikew]

There are probably are more reasons for this suffering than this alone, but here's what came to mind (even if it just raises more questions)...

Jesus suffered because the followers would also suffer. This was especially pertinent due to the persecutions in accord with Matt 23. Jesus had to suffer as much (or more so) as the believers were to suffer.
Mat 23:29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye build the sepulchres of the prophets, and garnish the tombs of the righteous, 30 and say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we should not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets. 31 Wherefore ye witness to yourselves, that ye are sons of them that slew the prophets. 32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers. 33 Ye serpents, ye offspring of vipers, how shall ye escape the judgment of hell? 34 Therefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: some of them shall ye kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city: 35 that upon you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of Abel the righteous unto the blood of Zachariah son of Barachiah, whom ye slew between the sanctuary and the altar. 36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

This suffering may be in accord with the priestly role of Jesus to have experienced what man would experience, that Jesus would be seen to identify with the suffering that other people encountered.

[steve]

It is possible that the "must" in this matter was determined by the necessity of fulfilling prophecy, rather than by the intrinsic merits or efficacy of every individual pain endured. After all, Psalm 22 and Isaiah 53 famously describe not only the death but the semi-mutilation of the Messiah. That the Messiah would fulfill the prophecies was a genuine necessity. This concern is expressed by Christ when Peter tried to prevent His arrest: "But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be?" (Matt.26:54)

Of course, one might say, "But this just pushes the question one step backward. Why would the prophets insist that this much suffering (additional to mere death) would happen to the Messiah?"

The issue of whether the prophecies were determinative or merely prescient thus comes to the fore. I do not think that the prophecies were created arbitrarily, thereby imposing the necessity that, thereafter, the events must necessarily be suited to the predictions. Rather, I believe that prophetic predictions demonstrate God's ability to foresee events that are going to happen—including many that will happen through the choices and actions of various parties other than God.

For example, I do not believe that God determined beforehand that Judas must betray Christ. I think this was entirely Judas' doing. God foresaw this, and predicted it. Likewise, all the abuse that Jesus received at the hands of monstrous men would have been foreseen by God and thereby predicted in the prophets.

It is not necessary to believe that God determined the specific amount of suffering that men would inflict upon Jesus. What was determined by God was that Jesus would be "delivered up" to them for them to do what they wished (Acts 2:23). They took it from there.

However, once the prophets had revealed that these were the things the Messiah would suffer, there was the necessity that anyone, in order to be recognized by Israel as the Messiah, would have to experience those things which stood predicted by the prophets.

If this is true, then the only reason that the Messiah must necessarily suffer all these things was that these things were in fact going to occur, and had been prophesied.

[mattrose]

I like all of the above responses. I would say, along with Steve, that God simply knew that degree of suffering that His Son would face and gave this vision to the prophets. But I also think He allowed this degree of suffering b/c, as Homer pointed out, it reveals the terribleness of sin and the amazing love of God/Christ.

I'd only add that His suffering prior to (and including) the cross also can be seen in connection to Jesus being able to sympathize with our weakness (Hebrews 4:14-16).

For anyone interested, I have accumulated a list of the sufferings...

Arrest
Accepts Cup (Matt 26:39, 42)
Deserted (Matt 26:56b)

Before Annas
Bound (John 18:12)
Struck (John 18:22)

Before Caiaphas
Spit on (Matt 26:67)
Blindfolded (Mark 14:65)
Mocked (Matt 26:68)
Struck/Slapped (Matt 26:67)
Beaten (Mark 16:65)
Insults (Luke 22:65)

Before Sanhedrin
Condemned (Matthew 27:1)
Bound (Matthew 27:2)

Before Pilate

Before Herod
Mocked (Luke 23:11)

Before Pilate
Flogged (Matt 27:26)

Soldiers
Stripped (Matt 27:28)
Thorns (Matt 27:28)
Mocked (Matt 27:28-29)
Spit on (Matt 27:30)
Struck (Matt 27:30
Disrobed (Matt 27:31)

Cross
Carried Cross (John 19:17)
Nailed to Cross (John 20:25)
Disrobed (Matt 27:36)
Mocked (Matt 27:37)
Insulted (Matt 27:39-44)
Forsaken (Matt 27:46)

[TK]

Along these same lines, it seems that the OT prophecies predicted a crucifixion, but do they necessarily do so?

for example, do you think Jesus expected to be crucified, or perhaps only as one possibility among others, like stoning.

TK

[steve]

Psalm 22:14-18 seems to suggest crucifixion.

[TK]

i definitely agree with that.

does anyone know if crucifixion was known prior to the Romans use of it?

TK

[steve]

The following is from Wikipedia—which many consider to be an unreliable source, but which has nontheless been pretty accurate in the case of subjects that I actually know something about and can verify. On this subject, I have no indepentant knowledge, so I defer to this readily available source:

Crucifixion was in use particularly among the Persians, Seleucids, Carthaginians, and Romans from about the 6th century BC to the 4th century AD. In the year 337, Emperor Constantine I abolished it in the Roman Empire, out of veneration for Jesus Christ, the most famous victim of crucifixion.[2][3] It was also used as a form of execution in Japan, of both criminals and Christians.

This account does not extend the practice of crucifixion as far back as David's time (1000 BC).

[SteveF]

does anyone know if crucifixion was known prior to the Romans use of it?

TK

Hi TK, I watched a History Channel video last year called Crucifixion and it went into detail about the origins of crucifixion. I got it from our public library, perhaps yours will have it as well.

http://shop.history.com/detail.php?p=70736

Steve